120mm OLD respacing
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120mm OLD respacing
Looking for a bit of advice on spacing on my old Frejus. I am in the process of changing out the rear derailleur and freewheel to something this old guy can handle. Stock of course is 120mm axle. Frame is closer to 121.5-122mm. I need close to 2mm on the DS for the slightly thicker freewheel body on a Shimano 14-28 five speed freewheel and for the locknut on a vintage suntour 7 RD.
How much "off" would I be and would it really be noticeable to just space the DS. I have a 1.8mm washer that will do the trick. Would I even notice the dish? Conversely, I could easily put another of the same washers on the other side and spring the frame ever so slightly; less than 2mm.
Just wondering which way to go. Of course, I am saving all the old parts.
How much "off" would I be and would it really be noticeable to just space the DS. I have a 1.8mm washer that will do the trick. Would I even notice the dish? Conversely, I could easily put another of the same washers on the other side and spring the frame ever so slightly; less than 2mm.
Just wondering which way to go. Of course, I am saving all the old parts.
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@sd5782, ideally, the front wheel and rear wheel track in line with each other. Keeping the rear wheel centered on the head and seat tube and having the dropouts parallel with each other is a good start.
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Understandable of course, and that jig and measuring is great too. I believe I saw a string method before too. I kinda wondered how much a mm or two would be noticed if at all for a casual rider going less than 30 mph.
Rear dropout spacing already almost 122mm, so when closing skewer is it assumed the 2mm difference would be taken up evenly from both sides? One could measure with no wheel mounted, and then locked in at 122 I guess to see, but that is probably greater precision than I could measure.
Perhaps I will look into Sheldon site for string method, but would have to take off fender too. I may just try one DS spacer and be happy dropouts aren’t spread or compressed. Recentering the axle then would then leave an equal axle protrusion of maybe 3.5-4mm.
Rear dropout spacing already almost 122mm, so when closing skewer is it assumed the 2mm difference would be taken up evenly from both sides? One could measure with no wheel mounted, and then locked in at 122 I guess to see, but that is probably greater precision than I could measure.
Perhaps I will look into Sheldon site for string method, but would have to take off fender too. I may just try one DS spacer and be happy dropouts aren’t spread or compressed. Recentering the axle then would then leave an equal axle protrusion of maybe 3.5-4mm.
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Just respace (cold set) the frame normally. There are two basic home methods. Sheldon uses a 2x4. The new youtube guys use a long bolt in the dropouts and a series of nuts and washers. (I think this method is easier.) Pick one and go for it. Use Sheldon's string test to make sure the frame is straight. And yes, you'll have to redish the wheel.
Last edited by SurferRosa; 07-05-20 at 11:57 AM.
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Minor redishing is (I have heard, never done it), on a true wheel, often accomplished simply by tightening the drive-side spokes uniformly. It doesn't take much to move the rim over.
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Looked at the Sheldon string measuring method with string going from dropouts to headtube and measuring string at seat tube. I did that and interestingly it was off just a bit and adding the 1.8 mm spacer to the drive side actually evened things out. That is also about the amount that the dropouts were over the nominal120mm. Lucky coincidence I guess as that suited what I was trying to accomplish anyhow.
Back kinda to the rest of the question as to how noticeable the ride is when it is off just a wee bit. I know I rode my old Supersport for decades with the dish off from trying to true it and not knowing any better about 30 years ago as a youngster. Perhaps a heavy bike on old Kendas doesn’t show minor stuff, or I don’t/didn’t have a feel for it. I know just a bit more now and am also willing to learn more too. Of course, an old Schwinn in the flatlands here is a whole different story than flying down a mountain at 40mph on a bit more of a premium bike.
Back kinda to the rest of the question as to how noticeable the ride is when it is off just a wee bit. I know I rode my old Supersport for decades with the dish off from trying to true it and not knowing any better about 30 years ago as a youngster. Perhaps a heavy bike on old Kendas doesn’t show minor stuff, or I don’t/didn’t have a feel for it. I know just a bit more now and am also willing to learn more too. Of course, an old Schwinn in the flatlands here is a whole different story than flying down a mountain at 40mph on a bit more of a premium bike.
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@sd5782, it's possible you'll notice, but it's not probable.
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Looked at the Sheldon string measuring method with string going from dropouts to headtube and measuring string at seat tube. I did that and interestingly it was off just a bit and adding the 1.8 mm spacer to the drive side actually evened things out. That is also about the amount that the dropouts were over the nominal120mm. Lucky coincidence I guess as that suited what I was trying to accomplish anyhow.
Originally Posted by sd5782;2 1571058
Back kinda to the rest of the question as to how noticeable the ride is when it is off just a wee bit. I know I rode my old Supersport for decades with the dish off from trying to true it and not knowing any better about 30 years ago as a youngster. Perhaps a heavy bike on old Kendas doesn’t show minor stuff, or I don’t/didn’t have a feel for it. I know just a bit more now and am also willing to learn more too. Of course, an old Schwinn in the flatlands here is a whole different story than flying down a mountain at 40mph on a bit more of a premium bike.
Last edited by branko_76; 07-05-20 at 06:48 PM.
#10
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Looked at the Sheldon string measuring method with string going from dropouts to headtube and measuring string at seat tube. I did that and interestingly it was off just a bit and adding the 1.8 mm spacer to the drive side actually evened things out. That is also about the amount that the dropouts were over the nominal120mm. Lucky coincidence I guess as that suited what I was trying to accomplish anyhow.
Back kinda to the rest of the question as to how noticeable the ride is when it is off just a wee bit. I know I rode my old Supersport for decades with the dish off from trying to true it and not knowing any better about 30 years ago as a youngster. Perhaps a heavy bike on old Kendas doesn’t show minor stuff, or I don’t/didn’t have a feel for it. I know just a bit more now and am also willing to learn more too. Of course, an old Schwinn in the flatlands here is a whole different story than flying down a mountain at 40mph on a bit more of a premium bike.
Back kinda to the rest of the question as to how noticeable the ride is when it is off just a wee bit. I know I rode my old Supersport for decades with the dish off from trying to true it and not knowing any better about 30 years ago as a youngster. Perhaps a heavy bike on old Kendas doesn’t show minor stuff, or I don’t/didn’t have a feel for it. I know just a bit more now and am also willing to learn more too. Of course, an old Schwinn in the flatlands here is a whole different story than flying down a mountain at 40mph on a bit more of a premium bike.
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...to do this with any hope of accuracy, you really need to have the frame up where you can see it and work on it easily, and at least the BB ought to be out.
Both wheels will, of course, be removed. It's a lot easier to do on a bare frame, without the fork flopping around as an extra hassle. Here are pictures I took recently on a current project.
...you probably won't notice. Try it and see. You can always sting it up later if it's already built up.
Both wheels will, of course, be removed. It's a lot easier to do on a bare frame, without the fork flopping around as an extra hassle. Here are pictures I took recently on a current project.
...you probably won't notice. Try it and see. You can always sting it up later if it's already built up.
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Just respace (cold set) the frame normally. There are two basic home methods. Sheldon uses a 2x4. The new youtube guys use a long bolt in the dropouts and a series of nuts and washers. (I think this method is easier.) Pick one and go for it. Use Sheldon's string test to make sure the frame is straight. And yes, you'll have to redish the wheel.
But it's a lot easier to do with a lever arm with an adjustable set of hooks, modeled after the one Park makes and sells. You can make an acceptable substitute that will work with a piece of wood and a vinyl covered hook that bolts through it. Pad the other end with something to protect the paint. If you want to go fancy, you can wrap the handle end.
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Thanks all. Kind of what I was thinking. Fun to learn stuff, but that opens up other cans of worms. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. Actually bike was up in stand with wheel and RD off. String around headtube to rear dropouts. Just a slight variance to one side. Spacer added which brought that side out which should have kept the centerline of the wheel the same as it was. Not real precise, but was reassuring to see it looking as it should. Now to set up the slightly less vintage RD to handle the 28 tooth freewheel. Still will be 5 speed vintage, but hopefully better shifting than the campy Gran Sport. Vintage is nice, and I have read posts of others having luck with the Gran Sport, but I haven’t.
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Thanks all. Kind of what I was thinking. Fun to learn stuff, but that opens up other cans of worms. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. Actually bike was up in stand with wheel and RD off. String around headtube to rear dropouts. Just a slight variance to one side. Spacer added which brought that side out which should have kept the centerline of the wheel the same as it was. Not real precise, but was reassuring to see it looking as it should. Now to set up the slightly less vintage RD to handle the 28 tooth freewheel. Still will be 5 speed vintage, but hopefully better shifting than the campy Gran Sport. Vintage is nice, and I have read posts of others having luck with the Gran Sport, but I haven’t.
You can do a double check on where your wheel is running in the rear triangle relative to center plane by simply running a long straightedge along the head tube/seat tube line on one side or the other. See where it lands on the rim (works better with tyre off). Then do it on the other side. Compare results.
You can even eyeball it (roughly) with the wheel in the frame, and the bike in a stand turned upside down. You want your rear wheel/tyre to look like it's centered relative to the seat tube, when viewed with one eye open, square on and centered to the bike. That's how I usually set the adjuster screws in the dropouts, when a bike has them.