Easyrider1

I have recently installed a Bionx D series motor with a G2 console on my handcycle but due to my lack of arm strength (I have quadriplegia) I am finding it very difficult to apply sufficient force onto the cranks to get the motor to kick in (via the torque sensor) without my arms fatiguing rapidly.

I have adjusted the settings on the console to what appears the most sensitive for the motor to activate:
0007 - strain gauge gain set to 4
0008 - Gain assist set to 4
0009 - Strain gauge sensitivity set to 0
1234 - strain gauge filter set to F+++

I was wondering if there is another adjustment that can be made to make the motor activate with very little force applied through the cranks to the torque sensor?

Any advice would be appreciated.

FBinNY 

I eleven that the bionix torque sensor is hub based. If so, simply changingo the gearing with change the balance between porcelain applied at the pedals and torque sensed at the motor.

Of course it will also change the cadence needed to maintain speed, so it
Should something to dial in.

BTW, your arms shouldn't play into this directly. Pedal force levers your body up and back in accordance to Newton's Laws. The key is to find a posture so you would fall forward if just sitting there, but the reaction forces through your hips and core, hold you up.

BTW, remove us more about the bike, derailleur or single speed drive? And is the motor in the rear wheel or front, and ,likewise wise the sensor.

dabac

Do you have to use the torque setting?
AFAIK there are usually two options:
1) torque sensor, where torque also regulates the amount of assistance the motor delivers
2)cadence sensor and externally regulated assist. You set the power the motor will provide through the little control panel, then the motor will deliver that as long as the cranks are turning. May also use a thumb throttle.
If you can switch from torque to ”set assist” - or whatever the proper word is - you should be good.

speedy25

I cant believe FB mangled that reply so badly.

His bike is hand powered.

I'm sure theres a way to make that work for you Easyrider, but I dont think there is anyone on here that can do programming of the Bionx hubs to assist you. There are enthusiasts for that brand though. See if Bionx can help, or give you a name for someone who can.

Also fill in info in the user cp so we at least know your location. Sometimes knowing where you are makes all the difference for help.

-SP

2old

If the system has an rpm sensor as well as a torque sensor, it may be possible to remove the torque sensor electronically. Then using the highest level of assist should make "pedaling" very easy. Your dealer or the factory (as S25 stated) should be able to help.

BobG

You may want to call FreedomRyder, a small company in Oregon that manufactures a BionX powered hand trike. Click on the "More" tab for contact info. They should know all about it.

https://www.freedomryder.com
https://www.facebook.com/FreedomRyderHandcycles/

Nelson37

FB - Either you are a child of the 60's having an LSD flashback, or you are having a stroke. Please respond or have yourself checked ASAP.

To the OP - the BIONX system is the most proprietary, locked-in, resistant to modifying system I have ever heard of. You need someone VERY experienced in working with it, dealer access is mandatory for codes and programming tools, and I personally would avoid it like the plague and try and get something else. They do have a good reputation for quality, but do not appear to be well suited for your intended use.

Doc_Wui

I agree with Nelson37 about Bionx being pretty expensive and how they lock out any user changes. A low priced motor kit with cadence sensor and throttle would probably suit the OP's needs quite well.

WilliamT

You could also have a local bike shop replace the chain ring to a smaller size. That will make it much easier to pedal.

BobG

FB, Dabac, 2old, Nelson, Doc- A BionX motor is mounted in the rear wheel but in the case of Easyrider's hand trike that rear wheel is located in the front. It has a torque sensor in the hub, no cadence sensor. That torque sensor is set up to respond to power delivered by the legs whereas Easyrider is "pedaling" with his arms. BionX does have setting codes in it's dealer manual that Easyrider has been experimenting with. Those codes have been posted over at the Electric Bike Review forums and elsewhere on the internet. I have the entire BionX dealer manual on my computer. I wrote an earlier post with a page of codes attached but deleted it suspecting it to be copyrighted.

Easyrider- The BionX user manual says this...

"If you ever have concerns or questions that your dealer cannot provide answers to, or have comments relating to this user manual, feel free to contact us in Europe at service.bike.eu@bionxinternational.com, in North America at service.bike.na@bionxinternational.com, and anywhere else in the world at service.bike@bionxinternational.com"

Nelson37

Bob, I understand all that, however the needed information should be in the user's hands at purchase, not restricted to dealers. This motor kit is just not a good choice for this, or any other installation where any significant degree of customization is necessary. Most other kits this information is freely available.

Add in the significantly higher cost of replacement batteries, controllers, displays, etc., and the near impossibility of using alternative suppliers for these parts with much more reasonable costs, for installation by average users, this company was one of the very first I crossed off my list altogether.

If at all possible to return the parts for a refund and get something else, that would be my recommendation. Definitely contact a Bionx dealer or the company directly, but other users have not reported a high probability of success in these areas.

FBinNY 

Yes, between missing the quardriplegia, and Samsung's help (my regular computer is out for service), my answer dodge come out pretty mangled.

However the small kernel left intact that talked about gear ratio is the core of my post. Lowering the gearing will favorable change the ratio of input torques at the hand drive, vs measured torque at the hub.

The other approach might be to reach zbout to the folks at Bionx, and asking if they can modify the programming to make a hub better matched to typical arm vs leg strength. If it's possible ND they do it, it would open up a nice niche market for them (but sure to remind them of that), so what may be a favor for the OP may help them too.

Rick Imby

If it is like the sensor on some e-bikes/kits and the crank arms turn separate from the chainring---you could possibly pedal backwards and it would sense movement. A throttle will be hard as both hands are on the pedal...

Rick Imby

I would bet a call to Bionix customer service would get you some help too..

BobG

But the BionX D-500 is among the most powerful hub motors on the market. I have one on my conventional Bruce Gordon Rock 'n' Road drop bar touring bike and I'll fly over any hill up to 10% in grade and will climb powerfully over hills of 14% or more in my White Mountain NH town. I've gotten up to 50 miles of range on some rides with enough juice left for the final 2 miles of steep climbing up to my house. I'm 69 and have had 4 heart attacks and a quadruple bypass yet I'll pass any 25 year old on a carbon fiber racing bike on any hill. I'll apologize for "cheating" and point out my motor as I pass in total silence!

The D-500 may not be as powerful as a mid drive but a mid drive kit may be a tricky (if not impossible) retro-fit on a hand cycle. The D-500 will definitely beat out most any other hub motor. Its downhill braking feature in "re-gen" mode would be wonderful arm relief on a hand cycle. If the OP can fine tweak the torque sensor it could be a life changer for him/her. I have a neighbor with MS who is looking into a similar retro-fit on her hand cycle.

Rick- Back pedaling will not activate the torque sensor.

BobG

@Easyrider1- Were you able to find a torque collar at the correct angle to place your BionX hub at the proper angle to the ground? I know that is important for proper torque sensor operation. Yes, BionX does address hand cycle details in their dealer manual. See attached page. Make sure you use a torque collar that places the tension side of your chain at 90 degrees to the ground.

My D-500 is very responsive to light leg pressure particularly at the higher assist modes or Mountain Mode. That said, it's hard to transpose leg pressure to arm pressure. There is one torque collar that can be press fit to match any dropout angle but requires a puller to remove and adjust its angle. Most bikes can be fit with one of the various standard sized V3 torque collars that just drops onto the axle without tools...

https://goo.gl/bo9pES

Nelson37

"Possibly the most powerful hub motor on the market"? !!??!!?? HOLY BEJEEZUS GAWD what are you smoking and can you get me some? It is not even in the ballpark with any of the QS series, Cromotors, most of the Crystalytes, as well as others.

Virtually all other motors can use a simple Cadence sensor, as opposed to a torque sensor, which would seem to be a better choice for the OP's application. Can a Bionx use a simple, $5.00 sensor of this type? SFAIK, no it can't. Maybe if you could use a more generic controller commonly available for well under $100.00, but then ..... No, it won't work. Is there a simple sensor which does not require a crank puller, such as will work with NEARLY ALL controllers and NEARLY ALL other motors, for the BIONX? No, you must use the locked down, proprietary, expensive Bionx parts. You can't even use an aftermarket battery without some serious electrical engineering and some loss of functionality.

Look, it is well made, good quality hardware, but it is Much more expensive than units of similar quality and replacement part options are severely limited. These limited options are currently rendering it nearly unusable for the user in question.

BobG

If you say so Nelson. But if one has to sift through the arcane pages of Endless Sphere to even learn about these obscure companies....well, it's just not going to happen for most of us. Not one of those companies is even listed in my yellow pages. The OP asked a very specific question about a product he already has and that's what I'm addressing in my replies.

Nelson37

If your goal is a product that is suitable for your needs, I strongly suggest that sifting through something other than the yellow pages is a requirement.

Salesman's schpiel and slick ads separated a man from a couple grand of hard-earned cash for a product that will not fill his needs, or at least has not yet done so.

A very small amount of data sifting would have made the pitfalls known, and shown alternative possibilities that are both better and less expensive.

Life is a series of learning experiences. Hopefully others can benefit by avoiding mistakes demonstrated here. A handcycle built around a proprietary motor on a proprietary controller run by a torque sensor ONLY with no end-user access to full programability is a bad idea.

BobG

"Yellow Pages" was just tongue in cheek Nelson. Lighten up! BF needs to add another emoticon to the menu! We seem to be talking to a drive by poster anyway. He/she hasn't returned to this thread for almost 3 days now.

Easyrider1

Hi All,

Thanks so much for all your comments, I appreciate your advice. I guess the selection of the Bionx may not have been the best product for my situation however upon advice it appeared the torque sensor could be adjusted to require very minimal force. However minimal force is relative to each person. The mid drives at the time didn't appear to be suitable with the type of handcycle I have.

BobG thanks for the attachments, I think the torque collar may have been installed incorrectly. The notch on my handcyle is at 90 deg, but the chain angle is approx. 40 deg to the horizontal, therefore the diagram suggests the notch should be at around 50 deg not 90? Would this make a big difference?

I have emailed Bionx service centre but they just suggested to look on the net for info. which I have done.

In hindsight a set up with a cadence sensor may have been better option for my needs, but you only know what you know I guess.

I will check the setup first and see if it makes a difference and work on some strength training.

Thanks again.
ER

BobG

ER- That could well be the source of your problem. BionX says that the notch should be no more than 10 degrees (+ or - 5) away from 90 degrees of the chain. Hopefully one of the standard collars at my link above will make the correction.

That template to measure dropout angle is fussy to use. I initially got the wrong size and had to swap it out for another. It's no big deal to swap collars. It just drops over the axle without tools. a notch engages into the hub and the outside engages your dropout at the proper angle. There is another press on collar (V1) that will go at any custom angle but I'm not sure that's intended to be used with the D-500. You'd have to ask BionX.

It bothers me that BionX would ask a customer to go to the web to ask about one of their products!

2old

I've called their headquarters a time or two and was able to discuss a solution with a helpful person. ER, have you tried calling them? As discussed, but not an answer to your original question, is a system with RPM sensor since they can be programmed with a level which gives full power with minimal force.

Easyrider1

Hi 2old,
I haven't called them yet, but if the set up isn't the problem (the torque collar may be at the wrong angle) I will see if they could provide modified code or some other adjustment. However when I emailed them they said check the info on the net. Maybe a call might help!

Regarding the rpm sensor, it doesn't have one just the torque sensor, so I don't think anything else can be used.

Thanks ER1

Easyrider1

Hi BobG, I read somewhere that you need a special tool to fit the collars to hold it in place. Is this to do with the other models and not the D series?

I still need to check which collar will work, although the angle I need looks a little different to what is available. If one doesn't match i will check with Bionx to see if the V1 collar will work.

thanks ER1