njkayaker

Whut??

Drivers don't seem to have much trouble judging the distance because, where it matters, their headlights work for that.

The point of flashing lights is to be recognized as a cyclist from a far distance.

AnthonyG

Just to throw this conversation off on a tangent.
For LEGAL reasons in Australia, Don't ever remove the standard red rear facing reflector, the front facing white reflector, the orange wheel reflectors and likely the orange pedal reflectors from your bike.
This isn't necessarily for safety reasons so much as if a car hits you while cycling and you don't have a full compliment of reflectors, then a good (wicked) lawyer can get the driver off the charges because of your lack of reflectors.
Additional lights DON'T count on their own.
Don't remove standard reflectors from a new bike. Make sure you ADD reflectors to any custom build that you intend to use for recreation or commuting. The Law is an ass.
If you ride a competition bike on the road without reflectors then you're taking a chance.

Maelochs

It is harder to judge closing speed (which is how one judges distance while approaching) if the light flashes because each flash registers as a discrete event in the brain. A solid light will visibly grow in size and brightness and the brain can more easily make comparisons over time.

However, the flashing light tends to grab more attention because the brain associates a flashing light with motion and motion with threat (or food.) Also a solid light seen at a distance, when growth is slow, can as @njkayaker nots, be mistaken for a static roadside light, like a light or a reflector on a mailbox.

Whatever ... follow local laws, I guess, particularly in Germany or Australia, it seems ....

Reflector Guy

On a related note: the city has started this new habit of posting warning signs complete with small flashing red LEDs along the sidewalk, at some distance ahead of places where construction sites have blocked or closed the sidewalk. This is supposed to warn pedestrians to look up from their phones and "Be careful, the sidewalk is closed ahead!" But until I got used to them, every time I drove by these signs in the dark I always thought they looked exactly like someone over there was riding their bike on the sidewalk. Sometimes there'd be a whole group of several signs, so it looked like there were several bikes there.

Reflector Guy

Sounds like my kind of place!

njkayaker

I know that. Also, the issue you are describing is much less of an issue when following behind. In this case, the flashing doesn't move much across the visual field (which makes the "comparisons over time" much easier).

Even so, there doesn't seem to be any real issue with drivers dealing with cyclists with flashing lights.

Where drivers really need to judge distance, they are close enough to see the rider in their headlights (and the rider should probably be using reflective material and, maybe, even an additional solid light to help with that).

It's also hard to estimate the distance of small point lights that are far away, So, using solid small lights have the same problem you think only flashing lights do.

The value of a flashing light is to let the driver know it's a cyclist from as far a distance as possible. The purpose isn't to "judge distance" (it isn't needed for that).

It's really uncommon to have small flashing red lights be used by anything other than cyclists.

Reflector Guy

Driving in to work this morning, I passed a bike going the other way, and it had the very largest and brightest headlight I'd ever seen. From a distance I'd assumed it was a motorcycle!

A couple thoughts:
-What kind of headlight was it? I don't ride at night but if I did, this is the light I'd want.
-If the headlight was mounted on the rear of the bike and the guy was on my side of the street, I'd have been inclined to swerve out of the way to avoid a potential head-on with a motorcycle.

BikeLite

I wonder if that had anything to do with no charges in the Mike Hall death.

AnthonyG

Excellent question. I can't say that I am familiar enough with the proceedings to know the answer.

subgrade

Quite likely any bike headlight without shaped beam and light output above 500lm. If they are not angled down, they look almost like high beam on cars or motorcycles, as most of the light will be emitted straight ahead and into your eyes, not down on the road ahead of the rider, where it really counts.

Cougrrcj

__________________

500 feet. roughly a tenth of a mile.
at 60mph, the car will reach you in six seconds (well, a bit longer if you're also moving.) Not a heck of a lot of time from the initial 'WTF is that', to recognition that it is a bicycle in the road, to muscle input and vehicle reaction.... I'd prefer to be seen from a greater distance... So I feel that anything I can do to grab a driver's attention is a good thing!

Then we get to people that walk in rural unlit areas... Here in Ohio, one is supposed to walk facing traffic, yet I see some people walking with traffic, dressed in dark colors at night... Seems like a Darwinesque way to go through Life...

GlennR

New York State DOT commercial

rsbob 

when I commuted to and from work in the dark winter months I used, and still have, a halogen Night Rider light with high and low beams. Low beam is bright but high is similar to a car’s high beam. I was flashed by oncoming cars when I forgot to dim it. The flashing mode is so bright it is positively obnoxious.

PS it had a focused beam. More focused than the rider.

GamblerGORD53

Peds with lights is getting more common, with cheap stuff available I guess. Attached to ankles and shoes.
I suppose it also has a neato cool dimension. They are putting them on dogs too.

CargoDane

I very much like people who put a (non-blinking) light on their dogs. Especially when they either have a long leash or one of those retractable ones.

Milton Keynes

Well, that is the minimum. I use bright lights on my bike so I can be seen at further distances.

Milton Keynes

We got a collar for our dog that lights up, mainly because he's a black dog and we have a hard time seeing him in the yard at night.

CargoDane

Super! It also helps cyclists. I often see some person with lights on or reflectors, and when I get closer, I notice they're holding a dog leash (as in "dog not attached"), and often I only see the dog itself when I'm really really close.
I really don't even care about the colour of the dog light, but as the eye is very sensitive to green light, I would recommend something with a green light because you can then use a less powerful one (more battery life) yet be seen really well.

I am quite happy to see a light going from side to side erratically, stop and go, and so on. I will then have a pretty idea that it is a dog and cut my speed right down, hands on brakes and whatnot before passing.

frizzen

Niether. Amber. For a long time I've used a steady read light to be legal and a flashing amber light to be seen. The eye is much more sensitive to amber than red, and at least here in California it's legal.

Maelochs

If the car is doing 88 feet per second, and the rider 22 fps (15 mph) then the closing time is sevens seconds---if the driver does not reduce speed.

However .... how many roads are straight and level for much more than 500 feet? Not a lot, where I ride.

Also, I assume that I will know the car is coming (cars are loud and headlights are bright) and I assume that the car will not hit me .... but I still get over as far as i can safely. The driver doesn't need to 'react" as if a semi-trailer with no lights pulled across the road a few hundred feet away. The driver needs to be aware of a potential obstacle on the side of the road. Often the driver does not need to respond at all, or perhaps will have to ease a few feet to the left for a second or so.

The fact that we all ride with such lights or less and so few of us are hit from behind tells me that the prescribed lights are fine. In fact, not many cyclists are hit from behind, and when it does happen, it is usually huge driver error--not invisible cyclists but distracted drivers.

I prefer tail lights as bright as possible, and red .... and flashing, because they work. A rearward-facing 500-candlepower light is a liability, and any light which could be seen farther than 500 feet but can't because the road isn't a highway .... is overkill.

I still opt for very bright tail lights, but anyone thinking a few extra candlepower are the difference between life and death, is deluded ... in my opinion.