showlow

Thanks for the reply. You know, there is no turning back now. I will just order the power meter. There's no possible way for me to know, for sure, what z2 really is outdoors. Maybe my issue is perceived effort. Or maybe it's pacing. Recently, I've been riding some pretty heavy tires. Maybe Strava assumes my bike is lighter or whatever. Before I spend half my paycheck on a power meter, is there any reason not to get a Stages single sided one?

showlow

I flagellate tons. Flagellate to the point of nausea a few times a week. Already deep into the existential pain and self-loathing.
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​​​​​Frustration comes from, despite all that, being pretty mediocre, especially on longer rides.

jadocs

As others have said, it is a calibration issue. I have a friend who was doing 400+ watt indoor rides on a snap. Come to find out never checked tire pressure and the tire was very lightly on the roller. Also never did a spin down. Once made aware of tire pressure, how to properly attach the bike, and performing spin downs....watts are now normal.

showlow

I have calibrated mine several times. Usually once a week or so. Think it's ok.

jadocs

Well if you routinely check your tire pressure (I can't remember what Wahoo recommends, I think 100 psi or something) and the bike is attached properly (appropriate amount of turns on the knob IAW instructions) and you do spin downs, then your watts should be in the ballpark.

Since you are comparing indoor and outdoor power, have you ever tried going all out on an outdoor ride? Power meter will definitely let you know what you are doing outside.

If you have an FTP of 296 averaging 20+ mph on a solo outdoor ride on relatively flat terrain should be no problem.

showlow

Only once have I ever gone over 20mph average. Might have been the wind that day. Totally flat ride. If I go all out outside it tends to be on segments that take 10 mins or less.

https://strava.app.link/sTVyZOhZR8

jadocs

No there is not reason not to. I have stages non-drive side power meters on two of my bikes.

You'll get used to looking at your power numbers outside as a measure of effort vs. looking at your speed.

jadocs

20.4 for 30 solo miles is good. If Strava estimated power of 171 is accurate, you must be quite light. A similar ride for me at that speed and elevation would put me around 210-220 watts, but I'm not a light weight.

showlow

​​​​​​I weigh about 175 or so. 6ft tall. I was riding a high quality steel bike from the 80s with modern parts. Prob about 20lbs for the bike. Used to weigh as little as 165 in my salad days, but I have no data from that time period. No idea if I was much faster then. Avoided Strava in those days for this very reason. Knew if I opened the worm can it'd become an obsession. Well, here I am now, officially obsessed. About to pull the trigger on the power meter.

jadocs

Nice, I have a bike like that (that's one of mine that has a PM as well) and I find I ride it more than my modern bike.

Iride01 

burnthesheep It was a serious question. I don't feel that riding a trainer indoors and riding a bicycle outdoors are the same thing. Several times I've actually met young people claiming they have no time to ride outside and all they do is ride a trainer indoors for many hours. When going outdoors for a few times they wonder why they can't perform like they did on the trainer.

Don't get me wrong, trainers are very useful, but for conversational purposes it'd help to know which is being talked about.

asgelle

Yes. There are many questions that can only be answered by a power meter that resolves the contribution from both legs (which doesn't necessarily require a two-sided meter). You may or may not care about answering those questions.

showlow

showlow

No, don't care. Only concerned with power.

bbbean 

Do I understand correctly that you calibrate your trainer, which has a built in power meter, and you've done a recognized FTP protocol (TR ramp test), and you now have your FTP. You're questioning that number because your one hour power on a hard ride is less than your FTP. Do I understand correctly?

Very few people can actually ride their FTP for an hour in anything less than a high level competition under controlled settings (i.e. hour record, time trial, etc). If your ftp is roughly 300 watts, and your rides (even the hard rides) show an estimated average power in the low 200s, the estimated power is probably pretty close. Most riders spend most of their time riding at 50-80% of their FTP.

showlow

Yes, you understand correctly. While it's true that I wouldn't be able to actually do my FTP for a full hour outside considering all the stops, turns, coasting and other interruptions, if I look at, for example, a segment I went all out on Saturday, my estimated power was only 243 for about 10 mins. I had to stop and put my foot down after that for a minute.

Strava has never estimated 200w for me avg on an entire ride. Think the highest I've ever seen was 171.

bbbean 

If that's the case, your FTP is your FTP, within the margin of error for your trainer (likely within 2% or less). This is especially true if you're using TR to train, and will be using your trainer and TR for your structured workouts.

FWIW, My bike has a power meter. I know my FTP and have an accurate measure of every ride I do. My rides nearly all have averages of 50-80% of my FTP. It's just nearly impossible to go at 100% for an uninterrupted hour.

In my experience, Strava estimated power is roughly as good as a power meter with a wider than normal margin of error, assuming it has accurate weight info. BUT - and this is a big but - it is much closer when looking at your average power over an entire ride than it is for a specific segment or smaller increment. Trying to use estimated power for intervals or segments invites a lot of error. Better to either just use RPE or invest in a power meter, IMHO.

BB

showlow

Getting a power meter. Then I'll know for sure. Thanks for the advice everyone.
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OBoile

Strava's power estimates are terrible. It doesn't account for wind, road surface, position on the bike, clothes you're wearing etc. I wouldn't take those very seriously.

Having said that, your trainer could also be off. And, as others have said, it's often very tough to ride near your FTP for an extended time out on the road. You'll find that you coast a lot like turning corners, rolling up to red lights or stop signs, going down hills etc.

showlow

4iiii single sided power meter on the way. I can't turn back from this data obsession. Too deep into it. Excited to have my real effort illuminated.

Hermes

Let me offer another aspect of cycling to obsess about...making every pedal stroke count.

When I go to the gym (when they are open), I make every rep count. What happens then is I rest. I may chat with someone, think, listen more closely to my music or what ever but my brain takes a break and my muscles recover. Then another set and I make all reps count. As the sets progress, I get tired and the reps on the final set feel much harder than the reps in the first set but I do not lose mental focus.

When I am on the bike training, I try to make every pedal stroke count for the goal of the interval or whatever and independent of terrain, wind and other distractions but of course putting safety first. Making every pedal stroke count at 80-100 rpm is mentally draining. So even if I have the physiology to complete a workout at a given power, I may not have the mental focus.

IMO, mental focus trumps physiology. So unlike the gym, where there is a lot of rest and brain downtime, there is little brain downtime cycling if you want to hit power targets.

IMO, that is why I find aerobic training harder than gym training. I never miss a gym target unless I am completely wasted but it is quite easy to miss power targets on the open road. I lose mental focus or I do not like the distress feeling in my legs since my brain knows I have but yet another, for example, 30 minutes to go and the feeling is not going to get better but worse.

On the trainer, it is easier for me to hold mental focus but the trainer feels harder to make power for the same level of perceived effort. Hence, my ability to hold constant power is better on the trainer albeit at a lower power level assuming I am not bored to death. That effect may vary from person to person and if I ride the trainer a lot, I get closer to the road. YMMV.

Comparing indoors to outdoors, without power feedback, it is easy for me to rest a couple of pedal strokes outdoors and speed will seem okay and HR seems okay but I am decelerating. Strava will pick that up as a speed change to the negative and lower power.

OBoile

That's what I have.
FWIW as a point of comparison, Strava would estimate ~115 watts on my commute. Riding at roughly the same effort,but on my bike with the PM, I'd average ~185.

OBoile

I hadn't really thought of this before, but totally I experience this too. If I'm with other people, my power will generally stay high as I'm focused on keeping up. But, when I'm by myself, it's very easy for my power to drift downwards without me really noticing. Then I check my PM, see it's low and pick it back up. But, as soon as I'm not looking (i.e. paying attention to the road) it starts to go down again. Next time, I'll try to specifically concentrate more on my effort with every pedal stroke and see if that helps.

showlow

Sounds like an interesting challenge. I think you are correct. When I ride outside, I often space out. Inside I am 100 percent focused on my power target.

jadocs

What has helped me is the first data field on my computer is instant power (largest display), the next is workout average power followed by speed and time. I zoom into only those fields when I'm riding. Distance, HR, Cadence, etc are further down and can be seen if I zoomed out. Having workout average power displayed lets me know if I'm on target or slacking...depending on what I want to do that day.