Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

Could Motorist Intimidation Breed Some Scofflaw Riding?

Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

Could Motorist Intimidation Breed Some Scofflaw Riding?

Old 06-28-10, 10:09 AM
  #1  
crhilton
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 4,556
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Could Motorist Intimidation Breed Some Scofflaw Riding?

This has nothing to do with stop signs or red lights.

On my way to work this morning I was riding down a moderately trafficked side road. Probably something like a couple dozen cars an hour, so not busy by any stretch.

I looked up the road and noticed another cyclists coming downhill toward me. He was a ways out from the curb, but approaching a parked car. Then I noticed a car right behind him. As they approached the car honked and he looked back and then moved clear to the left side of the road (where I was -- in fact he moved closer to my curb than I was).

I have no idea what the kid did after I passed him.

The thought struck me. This kid was doing, more or less, the right thing on the road until somebody honked at him. Then he rode down the wrong side of the road. I wonder how many people ride the wrong way, or cling to the sidewalks because they're intimidated not by regular reasonable traffic but by harassment such as honking, buzzing, and yelling.

If the kid had been going the wrong way down the road, to start, there likely would have been no altercation. The car would swerve over, the driver might roll his eyes, but he probably wouldn't honk: The encounter would be very brief. If the rider were on the sidewalk the driver would have no reason to honk, yell, or even acknowledge the riders existence.


I wonder if some riders who do these things (sidewalk cycling, bike salmoning) do so in part to avoid conflicts. This kid may have no one telling him "ride right, it's the law." But he just had one person telling him, essentially, "get out of my way."
crhilton is offline  
Old 06-28-10, 12:32 PM
  #2  
SCROUDS
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 397
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I do believe that a number of cyclists think the answer to not be buzzed is by riding closer to the curb. As for that incident, I believe its the underlying idea in both motorist and cyclist that bicycle traffic shouldn't impede motorized traffic.
SCROUDS is offline  
Old 06-28-10, 12:44 PM
  #3  
AlmostTrick
Tortoise Wins by a Hare!
 
AlmostTrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Looney Tunes, IL
Posts: 7,398

Bikes: Wabi Special FG, Raleigh Roper, Nashbar AL-1, Miyata One Hundred, '70 Schwinn Lemonator and More!!

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1549 Post(s)
Liked 941 Times in 504 Posts
Originally Posted by SCROUDS
I do believe that a number of cyclists think the answer to not be buzzed is by riding closer to the curb. As for that incident, I believe its the underlying idea in both motorist and cyclist that bicycle traffic shouldn't impede motorized traffic.
This is true not only for motorists and cyclists, but pedestrians too. I’m sure everyone has seen a ped momentarily “jog” to get out of the way of a car quicker, even when they were in a marked crosswalk.
AlmostTrick is offline  
Old 06-28-10, 12:44 PM
  #4  
crhilton
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 4,556
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by SCROUDS
I do believe that a number of cyclists think the answer to not be buzzed is by riding closer to the curb. As for that incident, I believe its the underlying idea in both motorist and cyclist that bicycle traffic shouldn't impede motorized traffic.
I agree with that. Although I think it's the case for both of them out of lack of education. And part of my thought was that the majority of education this kid may be getting could be from negative experiences like this on the road. So he'd be, reasonably, learning to ride the wrong way.

Not sure how you would counter that affect aside from making sure that *most* people get education on how to deal with bikes and how to ride bikes at some point.
crhilton is offline  
Old 06-28-10, 05:43 PM
  #5  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 23,208
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18883 Post(s)
Liked 10,645 Times in 6,054 Posts
Whenever I get buzzed after politely riding far to the right, I move into the center of my lane to make sure it doesn't happen again. That's not scofflawism, and the truth is it's something I should be doing from the start ... but that said, it's annoying to motorists, and it's absolutely bred by intimidation. Although in fairness, most drivers probably don't mean to intimidate when they buzz you.
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Old 06-28-10, 05:54 PM
  #6  
JoeyBike
20+mph Commuter
 
JoeyBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Orleans, LA USA
Posts: 7,491

Bikes: Surly LHT, Surly Lowside, a folding bike, and a beater.

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1422 Post(s)
Liked 315 Times in 210 Posts
Keep in mind that when riding against traffic on certain roads,

A. You can see what is coming at you without a mirror or turning your head.

B. Your chances of getting doored are much less, and if you do get doored, the door will swing away from you when you hit it causing less damage to the cyclist perhaps. Also, you can more easily see someone in the driver's seat of a parked car. The motorist can certainly see you better.

C. No cars will chase you or mess with you. They are going the other way!

Before you folks jump me, I very rarely ride contraflow. Usually the same one-block shortcut here and there with much caution. I know all the dangers. I do not recommend salmoning. However, I can see why some novice/slower riders would find it attractive.

Hey...the OP asked.
JoeyBike is offline  
Old 06-28-10, 06:31 PM
  #7  
B. Carfree
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Posts: 7,048
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 509 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by JoeyBike
Before you folks jump me, I very rarely ride contraflow. Usually the same one-block shortcut here and there with much caution.
You just made my day.I really love your vids, but it is a bit of a contortion to put you and the word caution together. Awesome, wild, courageous, death-defying, entertaining, efficient: all those I can see, but caution?
B. Carfree is offline  
Old 06-28-10, 06:38 PM
  #8  
B. Carfree
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Posts: 7,048
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 509 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
Whenever I get buzzed after politely riding far to the right, I move into the center of my lane to make sure it doesn't happen again. That's not scofflawism, and the truth is it's something I should be doing from the start ... but that said, it's annoying to motorists, and it's absolutely bred by intimidation. Although in fairness, most drivers probably don't mean to intimidate when they buzz you.
I agree with all except the last sentence. I really do think that most buzzers really do intend to intimidate cyclists. I have often gone "undercover", which is easily done since I occasionally work as a commercial trucker (it started as a way to figure out what was going on with those folks and I have continued to do it on occasion). In my role as semi-driving bubba, no one thinks anything of telling me how much they hate cyclists; they all assume I must hate them too. I wonder what they would think if they knew that on the days I choose to drive a truck I ride 50+ miles to get the truck?
B. Carfree is offline  
Old 06-28-10, 06:53 PM
  #9  
Digital_Cowboy
Senior Member
 
Digital_Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352

Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by crhilton
I agree with that. Although I think it's the case for both of them out of lack of education. And part of my thought was that the majority of education this kid may be getting could be from negative experiences like this on the road. So he'd be, reasonably, learning to ride the wrong way.

Not sure how you would counter that affect aside from making sure that *most* people get education on how to deal with bikes and how to ride bikes at some point.
Did you stop and let the cyclist know that how he was originally riding is/was the correct way to ride and that the way that he was scared/forced into riding by the ignorant motorist was the wrong way to ride?

What we need are more PSA's regarding the safe and legal way to ride a bike as well as what exactly the law says in regards to bicycles being on the road.

Encourage your local schools to work with state and local bike advocacy groups and clubs to to host bike rodeo's, and open them to cyclists of all ages and riding skill levels.

Work with state and local bike advocacy groups and clubs to educate the LEO's as to what the laws actually say in regards to bicycles being on the roads. And that just because they deem something to be unsafe that it must also be "illegal." And therefore they "have" to pull over the cyclist(s) in question and "educate them" or cite them for violation of laws that don't actually exist, except in their mind.
Digital_Cowboy is offline  
Old 06-28-10, 07:07 PM
  #10  
Mr IGH
afraid of whales
 
Mr IGH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Front Range, CO
Posts: 4,306
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 347 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
I don't understand how avoiding getting run over by an a$$hat cagers makes one a scofflaw...

Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy
Did you stop and let the cyclist know that how he was originally riding is/was the correct way to ride and that the way that he was scared/forced into riding by the ignorant motorist was the wrong way to ride?...
You can't be serious?
Mr IGH is offline  
Old 06-28-10, 08:03 PM
  #11  
Raiden
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Central CA
Posts: 1,414

Bikes: A little of everything

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I wouldn't say motorist intimidation causes much scofflaw riding (though it may be the case in some of the tougher cities), but I would say that fear of motorist carelessness or ignorance is certainly one of my reasons for scofflaw maneuvers. For instance, I've said before that my technique for crossing intersections, especially larger or complicated ones, involves rolling all the way up into the crosswalk, so I'm diagonally in front of the first car instead of directly beside it, to avoid right hooks. Obviously, crossing the first line of a crosswalk isn't legal for a vehicle.

The logic for that can be stretched out to rationalizing running a stopsign/light, depending on the specific circumstances of a given intersection. Not legal, just rationalized out of an assessment of risk.

I also try not to unclip/put a foot down when I slow/stop (clipping back in is a chance to fumble, though tiny), which likely makes most of my stops not technically stops. That's probably not what we're talking about here, though.

Edit: Was that line in the OP about stop signs there before? Meh.

Last edited by Raiden; 06-29-10 at 12:52 PM.
Raiden is offline  
Old 06-28-10, 09:05 PM
  #12  
crhilton
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 4,556
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy
Did you stop and let the cyclist know that how he was originally riding is/was the correct way to ride and that the way that he was scared/forced into riding by the ignorant motorist was the wrong way to ride?
Hah, no. I think I pointed out that I didn't even look back .
crhilton is offline  
Old 06-28-10, 09:10 PM
  #13  
crhilton
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 4,556
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Mr IGH
I don't understand how avoiding getting run over by an a$$hat cagers makes one a scofflaw...


You can't be serious?
LOL. The guy wasn't gonna hit him. Few things in life are so simply two sided.
crhilton is offline  
Old 06-28-10, 09:13 PM
  #14  
crhilton
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 4,556
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by JoeyBike
Keep in mind that when riding against traffic on certain roads,

A. You can see what is coming at you without a mirror or turning your head.

B. Your chances of getting doored are much less, and if you do get doored, the door will swing away from you when you hit it causing less damage to the cyclist perhaps. Also, you can more easily see someone in the driver's seat of a parked car. The motorist can certainly see you better.

C. No cars will chase you or mess with you. They are going the other way!

Before you folks jump me, I very rarely ride contraflow. Usually the same one-block shortcut here and there with much caution. I know all the dangers. I do not recommend salmoning. However, I can see why some novice/slower riders would find it attractive.

Hey...the OP asked.
I think these are really good points.
crhilton is offline  
Old 06-29-10, 01:53 AM
  #15  
Digital_Cowboy
Senior Member
 
Digital_Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352

Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Mr IGH
I don't understand how avoiding getting run over by an a$$hat cagers makes one a scofflaw...
Hmm, let's see before the ******* motorist honked his horn at the cyclist he was riding on the right side of the road going with the flow of traffic, after the ******* motorist honked his horn he switched over to wrong side of the road and not just over to the wrong side of the road but closer to the curb on the wrong side of the road than the OP himself was riding.

Originally Posted by Mr IGH
You can't be serious?
YOU can't be serious, can you?
Digital_Cowboy is offline  
Old 06-29-10, 01:57 AM
  #16  
Digital_Cowboy
Senior Member
 
Digital_Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352

Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by crhilton
Hah, no. I think I pointed out that I didn't even look back .
Why not? It would have been an excellent opportunity help educate another cyclist that he doesn't have to be intimidated by the motorists that he encounters on his rides.
Digital_Cowboy is offline  
Old 06-29-10, 06:07 AM
  #17  
Mr IGH
afraid of whales
 
Mr IGH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Front Range, CO
Posts: 4,306
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 347 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy
Hmm, let's see before the ******* motorist honked his horn at the cyclist he was riding on the right side of the road going with the flow of traffic, after the ******* motorist honked his horn he switched over to wrong side of the road and not just over to the wrong side of the road but closer to the curb on the wrong side of the road than the OP himself was riding.
YOU can't be serious, can you?
Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy
Why not? It would have been an excellent opportunity help educate another cyclist that he doesn't have to be intimidated by the motorists that he encounters on his rides.
This is getting a little pedantic, I'll head on out....
Mr IGH is offline  
Old 06-29-10, 07:39 AM
  #18  
sggoodri
Senior Member
 
sggoodri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 3,076

Bikes: 1983 Trek 500, 2002 Lemond Zurich, 2023 Litespeed Watia

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Many cyclists suffer from a social taboo against delaying motorists, even for a moment. They find this taboo more powerful than any inclination against violating the normal rules of the road. In some cases they find it more powerful than their own self interests of safety and convenience. They may not feel that the driver honking at them is about to hurt them, but they feel bad about their own use of the roadway rather than blaming the driver for being impatient and inappropriate.

Much of the breakdown of civil behavior on roadways can be explained in terms of frustration with the violation of social contract, real or imaginary. Much of the public believes that roadway users have a social contract responsibility to not slow down other users, and that controlling a travel lane with a bicycle violates this contract. Since our society believes that two wrongs make a right, the motorists retaliate by violating the social contract that requires safe and polite motoring. Finally, much of the cycling population responds to unsafe motoring by ignoring any other responsibilities they might have, such as riding on the right side of the roadway. They believe that the social contract has completely collapsed and that the rules of the road therefore have nothing to benefit them.

I believe it's possible to erode the taboo against slowing traffic by using low-speed vehicles in travel lanes, or at least stigmatize those people who would harass slow vehicle operators. As this problem declines, more of the cycling population may come to appreciate the benefits of the normal social contract of vehicular traffic rules.
sggoodri is offline  
Old 06-29-10, 08:27 AM
  #19  
crhilton
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 4,556
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy
Why not? It would have been an excellent opportunity help educate another cyclist that he doesn't have to be intimidated by the motorists that he encounters on his rides.
Stranger danger? I'm not the kind of person that does that. I'm not what you would call "outgoing."

I feel like I'm in church...
crhilton is offline  
Old 06-29-10, 08:55 AM
  #20  
Bekologist
totally louche
 
Bekologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Posts: 18,023

Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 8 Posts
i think its that MOTORISTS suffer a "social taboo" they never have to be delayed by bicyclists that breeds all the problems, not the other way around, to be perfectly honest.

as to the behavior described in the OPI've done that! usually to get the chance to look the driver square in the eyes mouthing the words "change lanes to pass, gr*******"
Bekologist is offline  
Old 06-29-10, 10:33 AM
  #21  
Feldman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,175
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 117 Post(s)
Liked 70 Times in 50 Posts
Originally Posted by sggoodri
Many cyclists suffer from a social taboo against delaying motorists, even for a moment. They find this taboo more powerful than any inclination against violating the normal rules of the road. In some cases they find it more powerful than their own self interests of safety and convenience. They may not feel that the driver honking at them is about to hurt them, but they feel bad about their own use of the roadway rather than blaming the driver for being impatient and inappropriate.

Much of the breakdown of civil behavior on roadways can be explained in terms of frustration with the violation of social contract, real or imaginary. Much of the public believes that roadway users have a social contract responsibility to not slow down other users, and that controlling a travel lane with a bicycle violates this contract. Since our society believes that two wrongs make a right, the motorists retaliate by violating the social contract that requires safe and polite motoring. Finally, much of the cycling population responds to unsafe motoring by ignoring any other responsibilities they might have, such as riding on the right side of the roadway. They believe that the social contract has completely collapsed and that the rules of the road therefore have nothing to benefit them.

I believe it's possible to erode the taboo against slowing traffic by using low-speed vehicles in travel lanes, or at least stigmatize those people who would harass slow vehicle operators. As this problem declines, more of the cycling population may come to appreciate the benefits of the normal social contract of vehicular traffic rules.
I agree with your above post, and will go you one further--we should help erode the speed-lust of road users when we drive our own motor vehicles--adhering fanatically to POSTED SPEED LIMITS and whenever we can get away with it driving 5mph slower than them. Chip away at that taboo with a bigger chisel!
Feldman is offline  
Old 06-29-10, 10:41 AM
  #22  
crhilton
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 4,556
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Feldman
I agree with your above post, and will go you one further--we should help erode the speed-lust of road users when we drive our own motor vehicles--adhering fanatically to POSTED SPEED LIMITS and whenever we can get away with it driving 5mph slower than them. Chip away at that taboo with a bigger chisel!
Well that's just standard safe, efficient, low stress driving practice. I'm amazed at what doing a few under on the interstate does. Suddenly you find yourself in that "in-between" zone your drivers ed teacher told you to try and find without even trying. People cluster more than I ever realized when I was a part of the clusters.

In the city you can save yourself a lot of stress and trouble by looking out ahead and adjusting your speed down when it's not gonna matter anyway. Coasting up to that stop light instead of driving full speed then breaking harder. And by not expecting 35 in a 35 zone you feel a lot better when reality sets in and you end up averaging 25 anyway.

I don't drive 5 under just to drive 5 under though (interstate excluded)... A slow poke in a car is a lot harder to get around than a slow poke on a bike.

We need a campaign: "Go slower, live longer."
crhilton is offline  
Old 06-29-10, 11:02 AM
  #23  
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,532 Times in 3,158 Posts
Originally Posted by AlmostTrick
This is true not only for motorists and cyclists, but pedestrians too. I’m sure everyone has seen a ped momentarily “jog” to get out of the way of a car quicker, even when they were in a marked crosswalk.
Of course the irony of that "jog" or even that way of thinking is that whether ped, cyclist or motorist, we are all humans trying to get somewhere... no matter what, the motorist has no special priority to get there before anyone else, regardless of mode of transit.
genec is offline  
Old 06-29-10, 11:04 AM
  #24  
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,532 Times in 3,158 Posts
I think motorist intimidation is the root cause for the anger that cyclists may display... that motorists take as arrogance.
genec is offline  
Old 06-29-10, 12:18 PM
  #25  
Feldman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,175
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 117 Post(s)
Liked 70 Times in 50 Posts
Originally Posted by crhilton
Well that's just standard safe, efficient, low stress driving practice. I'm amazed at what doing a few under on the interstate does. Suddenly you find yourself in that "in-between" zone your drivers ed teacher told you to try and find without even trying. People cluster more than I ever realized when I was a part of the clusters.

In the city you can save yourself a lot of stress and trouble by looking out ahead and adjusting your speed down when it's not gonna matter anyway. Coasting up to that stop light instead of driving full speed then breaking harder. And by not expecting 35 in a 35 zone you feel a lot better when reality sets in and you end up averaging 25 anyway.

I don't drive 5 under just to drive 5 under though (interstate excluded)... A slow poke in a car is a lot harder to get around than a slow poke on a bike.

We need a campaign: "Go slower, live longer."
"Go slower, live longer" agreed--you should copywrite it!

Last edited by Feldman; 06-29-10 at 12:19 PM. Reason: couldn't attach picture that would have made some sense of the last line
Feldman is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.