teacherlady

Does bike weight matter, or does the rider/bike combination weight matter?

I ride a Surly Long Haul Trucker. It weighs about 30 pounds before I add water bottles, extra layers, food, a lock, tools, etc. I like it (more than 2600 miles since June) but it's not perfect.

I recently rode a much lighter, much more expensive, carbon bike optimized for sport riding, and I loved it (Madone 6.2 WSD with a compact, if it matters). It felt like part of my body, not something separate. I'm wondering how much was better fit, how much was different geometry, how much was better components, and how much was that the Madone was at least 15, maybe 20 pounds lighter than my LHT? I rode all day, and nothing hurt the next day (except saddle-contact points). Maybe I'm wondering whether I deserve an expensive bike even though I'm fat.

I'm also wondering how gearing and weight interact. I rode the Madone on an all-day ride, but it was east-coast flat and I live in a hilly area. My lowest gear on the LHT is 18.4 inches, and on yesterday's ride (3300 feet of altitude gain) I was in the lowest gear for a lot of the day. The lowest gear I can get on the Madone is 28.8 inches. I'm prepared to stop and catch my breath going up a big hill -- but not every hundred feet. If I need my low gear on the LHT, will I be able to climb on the Madone?

I'm almost ready to go buy a new bike, but before I do, any insight would be helpful. If it matters, I'm close to 200 pounds and in my early 50s. Thank you!

chefisaac

just my opinion... if you are a bigger person, does weight really matter on the bike? Plus a heavier bike makes you stronger in the long rin. After riding my mtn bike commuter to work, I notice I am stronger on my road bike,

LesterOfPuppets

There's no way I could be happy with a 30 pound bike on any ride over 5 miles long, especially if hills were involved. Madone is what, 17-18 lbs stock? I've never had anything that light, I'm happy with a bare bike under 25 lbs so don't need to spend all that much to be happy. Every pound over 24 increases displeasure on longer hillier rides. As long as you don't go into debt for a lighter bike I say go for it and enjoy.

Hard for me to guess how much fit and whatnot goes into how much you enjoyed the Madone.

bassjones

Are you going to keep the LHT? N+1 Honestly though, different tools for different jobs. Loaded touring, LHT. Spirited group rides, Madone. Commuting, LHT...

RollCNY

If you are concerned about gearing, there is a Trek Madone 3.1 Apex WSD that should offer the same fit but with an 11-32 cassette. I am not a gear inch guy but that will put you closer to your LHT gearing, but not to it. The bike is also 1/2 the price so you only have to deserve it half as much.

Ultimately, you are as fast as you feel, and if you feel faster on a lighter, sportier bike, than you are. And the whole "a heavier bike is a better work out" argument is circular.. if you go faster on a lighter bike, your air resistance load is higher, so you get just as good a workout.

NOTE: I clearly do not know if workout is one or two words, so I used it both ways, guaranteeing that I am half wrong.

jimc101

As bassjones, two totally different bikes for different purposes. The LHT is far more capable at carrying things in/on panniers (the Madone doesn't have rack mounts) wouldn't want to put more than a very light weight saddle bag on the carbon seatpost either, also it will take large volume tires than the Madone.

You need to decide what sort of riding you are doing / enjoy more,

For the gearing, the stock Madone 6.2 wsd has a 50/34 crank and a 11-28 cassette, you can't go any lower with the gearing without changing parts, and then you are limited to a 11-32 cassette, with a GS RD (hard to tell from the Trek site if it's a SS or GS factory fitted), going lower would mean swapping out the crank, shifters, mechs etc.

rdtompki

18 gear inches sounds like you're running something like a 24t chainring with 34 or 36t cog. A lighter bike definitely has benefits, but you may want to look for something with a triple chainring; the LBS should be willing to tweak the small chainring and cassette to put you in the ballpark of your LHT. As for the weight issue, the 10+ lbs. you'll save doesn't seem like much in terms of percentage (considering body weight), but I've noticed the 4 lb. or so change going from a Giant OCR1 to a CF bike: mostly evident when climbing out of the saddle where It's less effort to rock the bike.

In my situation I've matched the low gear on my previous triple with an 11-32 cassette and a compact crank. Not the lowest gearing, maybe 25 gear inches, but I can still stay in the saddle up to 11-12% grade depending on duration.

contango 

Ultimately in terms of the weight what matters is the total weight you're hauling. If you're 200 and the bike is 30 then you're hauling 230 pounds. If you cut 90% off the weight of the bike (as a theoretical construct) you end up with a bike that weighs 3 but a rider/bike combo that weighs 203, so you've lost just under 15% of the total.

I'm not familiar with the two bikes you've mentioned but it's entirely possible that the difference between a mountain bike with fat tyres, and a road bike with thin tyres, will make a difference you'll appreciate. I ride with a friend every once in a while - his bike is a Ridgeback commuter thing with drop handlebars, fairly basic components, pannier rack etc. When I'm on my Rockhopper I have to work to keep up with him, when I'm on my Tricross he has to work to keep up with me. Ironically on the tricross he finds keeping up with me on uphill sections more effort, to the point I was dropping him on one ride (I wasn't really paying attention to where he was, on the basis every single other time I rode with him I'd had to struggle to keep up so I'd assumed he could keep up with me easily)

Don't let the idea that "I'm fat" come between you and a nice bike. If you enjoy cycling and you can afford it, get yourself something nice. If you don't enjoy cycling or you can't afford it, stick with what suits your budget and enthusiasm. When I bought my rockhopper I was over 280 and probably the slowest thing on two wheels for miles around but still enjoyed riding.

Sayre Kulp 

I cut my bike weight in half this year and immediately noticed a difference in both the handling and the speed. Some people believe weight of rig makes no difference if you're already X pounds overweight, but I don't buy it. I may be 100 pounds overweight, and while shaving ounces off with my water bottle choice won't be noticable, I can sure as hell tell a difference of 15 pounds or more.

mkadam68

+1 to Sayre.

Yes, as OP already stated, you already noticed a difference. The handling is better. You won't have quite the same level of fatigue. Gearing can be fixed as well.

But, in the long run, as contango said, if you're 200lbs., going to a 15lb. bike is not going to get you to win Le Tour. (It's not about the bike, after all.)

But you will notice it. And you will climb just a tiny bit faster. The only relevant question is the one only you can answer:

It's your money. Your decision.

shawmutt

It's cheaper to lose 15 lbs than to go from a 30 lb bike to a 15 lb one. It almost sounds like the issue is fit, not weight.

LesterOfPuppets

Yes, but 15 lb bikes are more fun to ride than 30 lb bikes whether you're 210 or 225.

There could very well be a fit issue going on with the LHT.

Seve

You can always have the rear cassette changed to a lower gearing combination, although, you may have to swap out the derailleur cage to a longer version.
The LBS would be able to do that for you or as others have suggested you could also change out the compact double for a triple crankset. So there are options available to you.

You have already noticed the difference between the two bikes and for the most part answered your own question. A nice compact, light, well handling bicycle that is properly fit to the individual is always nice to ride, IMHO.

It doesn't mean that one is bad and the other is good, both are designed for different types of riding and as such one will have strong points over the other, given certain conditions and uses.

RobertL

From your comments it sounds like you and the Madone are a good fit and you do indeed like the lighter weight of the Madone.

As for the gearing you may want to look at the Madone 5.2 WSD as it gives you a choice between the compact double crank or a triple crank having three front chainrings for a wider gearing range to tackle the hills. The 5 series Madone will feel almost exactly like the 6.2 Madone you rode and it's a good bit less expensive.

Having said that, try as many bikes as you can and pick the one best for YOU.

jethro56 

A Madone 4.5 WSD is available in a triple. I don't know if going from a 34 to a 30 will be enough. Trying one out would tell you everything you need to know.

009jim

A lighter bike is definitely better, if like me you carry it up the stairs into the house every day.

exile

Trust me, i'm an expert on telling other people how to spend their money . In all seriousness it sounded like you answered your own question in your OP.

I find a difference between my LHT and my lighter commuterized hardtail. It just like another poster mentioned, each bike has its own positives and negatives depending on the situation.

ChrisO

You probably will notice.

I ride an LHT (30+ lbs) and absolutely love it. I also ride a sportier Motobecane (18ish lbs) and love that one too.

There is a definite difference in the riding experience between the two; the LHT treats me better over the long haul, but it doesn't get me there with any sort of enthusiasm, whereas the Moto is just very "peppy" feeling and pushing on the pedals instantly becomes acceleration.

I think that it is as much mental than physical, the Moto just drives me to ride in a more motivated fashion because it's funner in that way. The LHT compels me to have a more easy-does-it attitude towards the ride because it is funner in that way. It's sort of like owning a sports car and an SUV.

sstorkel

Agree. I ride my 17lb road bike much more than my touring/commuting bike. I can ride either bike all day and be comfortable, but the lighter bike is just more fun... especially when climbing!

I've ridden with both a road triple (53/39/30 crank + 12-27 cassette) and a compact double (50/34 + 11-28). In terms of the lowest available gear, there didn't seem to be a whole lot of practical difference between the two. Anything I could climb on one I could climb on the other.

Homeyba

Is that "54" a typo? That's a 24 tooth jump for the front derailleur.

sstorkel

Yep! I meant the typical 50/34 compact not 54/30. Went back and edited for correctness..

goldfinch

I am a weak rider and rode my Cannondale Quick with a triple frequently in the easiest gears going up hills. I bought a Madone and was worried about the compact double. The LBS said try it out, you may be fine, and if not we can put "mountain" gearing on the bike. The standard compact double has been fine and I've been able to go up all the hills that I went up with the Quick.

However, I never have ridden in the mountains.

david58

To your OP, I would answer "yes."

My CX bike, loaded up for the ride to work, probably goes 30+ pounds. I love the bike, and actually hope to replace it with a Surly LHT as the commute machine.

I rode the CX bike all summer, and it likely weighs 24 or so before water bottles - Fuji saved no Al in that bike frame. Again, I love the bike.

I lost about 25 pounds in the summer, and moved some fat over to the muscle category, basically getting more fit.

In October, I bought a road bike, a BMC SR-02. The bike, with pedals, comes in right about 20#, certainly not a lightweight.

Combining my weight loss, the geometry and fit of the BMC, and the good old placebo effect (due to the cool frame and the paint job!), I am much faster on the BMC, and hill climbing is much easier. Oh, forgot to add that the BMC has a compact double and a 12-28 cassette.

So, combining the fitness improvement and the new bike (wt+geometry/fit), the new bike is very different for me. Each a tool for a different job.

If you want the Madone, and can afford it without debt, go for it. I had an opportunity for one, but I figgered I was too fat to really do it justice (this is ME talking about ME, now), AND if I had bought it, even at the great price, I couldn't afford to buy my wife her road bike. And frankly, if I had to ride a steel bike with a solid frame I would do it in order for her to have a nice bike and to ride with me. But back to YOU - get the bike you want. Most of us aren't racing, and ride simply because we like it. So riding, unless you are totally addicted, is a WANT and not a HAVE TO. So your reasons for buying the bike should be based on the WANT.

You will love the Madone, I'm certain!

clydeosaur

Can you afford it? Do you think you ride enough to get use? Do you like it? Do you feel good about yourself on it? BUY IT!!!!

mr,grumpy 

Yes. Yes it does. It defies all logic and I had to live it to believe it but it's true. +/- 5 pounds isn't that noticeable but drop 10 or more and you will be keenly aware of the difference!