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Post your Centurion Ironman.. For the love of 80s paint jobs!

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Post your Centurion Ironman.. For the love of 80s paint jobs!

Old 09-27-19, 03:58 AM
  #7301  
texaspandj
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@VintageTTfan go to page 36 post 876 and you will find the begining discussion of the Ironman imposter.
Actually way later in the thread it comes up again.
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Old 09-27-19, 04:01 AM
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
What are the serial numbers on the bikes in question? Do they match up with the Japanese Centurion format? I have a Japanese market Expert. It has some major differences from the Ironman Expert you see every day. But the serial number matches up.
Pat, I think your Expert was an Asian market Centurion during the WSI import time. The Asian market, which included Australia, didn't have the Dave Scott rights (and in Australia, probably not a good marketing idea).

The others discussed here are the ones licensed in Germany, and the serial numbers are a bit different, though still made in Japan. T-Mar deciphered them in the TT/Funny thread about Centurions. It think it was "Centurion Experts.... " or something like that.
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Old 09-27-19, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by texaspandj View Post
@VintageTTfan go to page 36 post 876 and you will find the begining discussion of the Ironman imposter.
Actually way later in the thread it comes up again.
Up early, aren't we?
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Old 09-27-19, 06:39 AM
  #7304  
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
We are what we are.

The new mission, should we decide to accept it, is a race-ready road Ironman for use where there is 3500' of climbing over 56 miles. For a working mom.

Not a tri-bike. This will be the essence of what the Ironman is, a road bike that can be hammered on rare triathlon occasions.

Frame-check
Fork-check
Headset-check

Compact crankset-check
Bars-not sure, need to see. 38's or 40's.
Stem-check
Seatpost-need a zero-setback
Saddle-check
Wrap-check
Wheelset-check

Cassette-wide needed, 10sp
RD-long cage needed for 10sp
Shifters-needed for 10-sp
Wheels-check
FD-needed for compact double 10sp
Tires-needed, I may have some
Tubes-needed
Seat bag-check
CO2 inflator/cartridge-check

Tire levers (2)- needed

Let me know. We are expanding our dominance. This is how we roll.
Tire wise, I have the following sets that could be sent:
Schwalbe Blizzard 700/23
Conti Gaterskins (dark gummies) 700/23
Bontrager T2? 700/23
Panaracer Pasala PT gummies 700/25

I some Pedro levers and some tubes.
1 Sakae Custom Road Champion bars 15.75/40mm out-out

Patrick
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Old 09-27-19, 06:51 AM
  #7305  
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Regarding the TT Turbos, the serial numbers are giving you some of the story. Just the 3 you posted show it was not a one off limited edition like the C Equipe or the Italian Lotuses. Different years on those 3. As for why they keep showing up/coming after the person said limited amount, here is what I think. The seller in Greece, (we shall refer to him as Danny Zuko) is a current/former industry rep or is connected to one. He/she keeps track of the trends in the C&V world. Might be a BF reader. As he/she is making the rounds, he is scouring the shops and his contacts for C&V items that he can make a buck from. Probably a really good side hustle.

As for the forks, that is a time when bikes were beginning to experiment with different frame materials. Maybe the forks were available in steel, carbon or aluminum and were ordered separately.
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Old 09-27-19, 07:36 AM
  #7306  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Since I am such a generous person, I can probably send a couple of sets of..............valve stem caps. I know those are really hard to come by.
I have a cat that steals those whenever she has a chance. I still haven't figured out where she's stashing them. There must be at least a dozen hidden somewhere around here. At least I hope they're hidden and not being consumed... Maybe I shouldn't have named her Puppy?
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Old 09-27-19, 07:55 AM
  #7307  
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
We are what we are.

The new mission, should we decide to accept it, is a race-ready road Ironman for use where there is 3500' of climbing over 56 miles. For a working mom.

Not a tri-bike. This will be the essence of what the Ironman is, a road bike that can be hammered on rare triathlon occasions.

Frame-check
Fork-check
Headset-check

Compact crankset-check
Bars-not sure, need to see. 38's or 40's.
Stem-check
Seatpost-need a zero-setback
Saddle-check
Wrap-check
Wheelset-check

Cassette-wide needed, 10sp
RD-long cage needed for 10sp
Shifters-needed for 10-sp
Wheels-check
FD-needed for compact double 10sp
Tires-needed, I may have some
Tubes-needed
Seat bag-check
CO2 inflator/cartridge-check

Tire levers (2)- needed

Let me know. We are expanding our dominance. This is how we roll.
I have front derailleurs.
105 1050
600 6401
Ultegra 6500
Not sure if any are compact compatible.
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Old 09-27-19, 11:34 AM
  #7308  
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Originally Posted by VintageTTfan View Post
What a strange Centurion! But I do really like it. Wish I had one but I do not. What do you people think of it? Any interesting historical tidbits? Sorry if I missed anything on this one. What size is that wheel?
Its a 24" wheel, I think 520mm. There exists a 540mm 24" wheel size, but I think 520 is what they used for all of these. IIRC they did it to shorten the frame tubes up without running into limits. The 2 limits what come to mind are toe overlap for short wheelbase short height frame, or intersection of the top and down tube if you try to do longer wheelbase short height frame.

If you look at the 24 front bike in the pic, the headtube is really long for the height of the frame. On a short 700c the two lugs on the headtube are just about touching each other, but the IM with with the 24 front has an even lower top tube height than the bike next to it.

Steering is super sharp on those things. Takes some getting used to. And btw that lens flare is pure taco grease baby.. no filters!

Last edited by riva; 09-27-19 at 12:41 PM.
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Old 09-27-19, 01:54 PM
  #7309  
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Originally Posted by texaspandj View Post
Oh I'm not disputing the veracity of the TT turbo Centurion. Like you I believe they are NOS frames that were never issued. I was just pointing out that as inexpensive as the Ironman is, it has been faked. Weird but true.
I'll try to find a pic for you.
I understand. Were those fakes of Centurions done as one or a few bikes or were they done in runs of 100 or more? That is an important question because it is pretty easy to fake a few but it takes a big commitment, time, money and work to do a run of a hundred and it requires a calculation that a lot of money could be made as a return on the investment by the crook. That is why I concluded that a large counterfeit run of Centurion Turbo TT's was out of the question. Serial numbers have already been found proving at least 125 I believe. Okay will thanks for all your input.
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Old 09-27-19, 02:15 PM
  #7310  
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
I don't think anyone stated the Turbo TT/Funny frame was a fake. I do remember, once I had one in my mitts, that I thought it was from Centurion, Japanese vintage, because the paint was very good, lugs in line with Centurion, font was the same, etc. T-Mar advised that it was Japanese, and Centurion, but Centurion Germany, mainly due to the time frame, etc. His extensive research on everything gave us the info we needed, and the bridge from Japan to Germany, as far as licensed distributors, we were slow to cross, even after he built it. They are NOS frames. Now, the fake Ironman bikes, yes, they're out there, and no one really knows why. A guy in Colorado and at least one other offered Ironman bikes that were repaints with what looked like one-off decal sets that said Ironman but really didn't match up.I myself have had 3 Ironman bikes re-done in powdercoat. One solid white, and I had decals made, in the Ironman style, that substituted words of my choosing. One was solid red, and as it was an '89, I used 1989 decals, so it was a legit re-do, just in powdercoat instead of paint. It went to cehowardGS. And my last one was "NotYourDaddy'sIronman," which was a re-do in dark grey metallic with black gold and burgundy decals from VeloCals. As it was 56cm, I can no longer ride it, and it's sitting here, with it's Look carbon fork, just waiting for some person to snap it up. Gold cable housings, etc. My favorite Ironman re-do was one done long ago, in the NE US, by a guy who actually duplicated the smoked purple fade in a paint booth, then used decals from VeloCals, and it was a stunner. There have been several here who repainted trashed Ironman bikes, and if I recall, one in green really, really stood out.
Sorry just getting back to yah....not always at my computer. Well I am happy to hear that the Centurion Turbo TT is not viewed as a fake or a counterfeit. However, if anyone had proof or an opinion that it was I would want to hear it. Yeah my mechanics son really loved the frame when I brought it over...and they know more about vintage than I do. The paint is high quality as you said. Good to know the lugs fit the profile. The font fits Germany and the time period for their Centurion branch I believe. Glad T-Mar confirms that it is Japanese. We owe you and him and a few others for your extensive knowledge on Centurion. I agree that it is German Centurion based on the decals on the head tube etc.

Yeah it is crazy that people made fake Ironmans! How sleazy. Would have made more sense if the fakes were made in the late eighties when they sold for more money. That would give them more reason to make fakes. I do not call repaints or customization an attempt to make a fake or counterfeit. The motive there is personal use not ripping people off. It sounds to me that the fakes you are referring to were pretty obvious and not done in large 100 unit runs. The Centurion Turbo TT as you know looks totally authentic and so far runs to at least 125 units. That is why I have to conclude it is authentic. Thanks for your valuable input.
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Old 09-27-19, 02:21 PM
  #7311  
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Originally Posted by TriBiker19 View Post
I have a cat that steals those whenever she has a chance. I still haven't figured out where she's stashing them. There must be at least a dozen hidden somewhere around here. At least I hope they're hidden and not being consumed... Maybe I shouldn't have named her Puppy?
Pat loses his, too. He gets going good, works on a bike, and then a squirrel runs out and it's all over.
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Old 09-27-19, 02:37 PM
  #7312  
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Originally Posted by texaspandj View Post
@VintageTTfan go to page 36 post 876 and you will find the begining discussion of the Ironman imposter.
Actually way later in the thread it comes up again.
Thanks for looking that up for me. Appreciated.
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Old 09-27-19, 04:16 PM
  #7313  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Regarding the TT Turbos, the serial numbers are giving you some of the story. Just the 3 you posted show it was not a one off limited edition like the C Equipe or the Italian Lotuses. Different years on those 3. As for why they keep showing up/coming after the person said limited amount, here is what I think. The seller in Greece, (we shall refer to him as Danny Zuko) is a current/former industry rep or is connected to one. He/she keeps track of the trends in the C&V world. Might be a BF reader. As he/she is making the rounds, he is scouring the shops and his contacts for C&V items that he can make a buck from. Probably a really good side hustle.

As for the forks, that is a time when bikes were beginning to experiment with different frame materials. Maybe the forks were available in steel, carbon or aluminum and were ordered separately.
Are you sure that the serial numbers on the pictures of the Centurion Turbo TT are showing different years for that specific bike??? To me they seem to indicate that they are all from the same year. Are you sure you are not throwing the purple Expert Lady serial number into the equation....a number that does not belong in the calculations?

Okay here is the vital part and my overall argument on why the Centurion Turbo TT is not a counterfeit or a fake based on actual serial numbers (I want to see if you agree Pat and anyone else reading this):

The serial numbers I have for the Centurion Turbo TT are:
Y8C4620

Y8C4646

Y8C4658

The serial number I have for the German Centurion Expert Lady is:

Y7K1681

The format is: letter/#/letter/#### in all the cases. They all have the Y. The second slot has to refer to the year logically if you look at the different numbers because they are all late eighties Centurions. So we deduce that all the Centurion Turbo TT''s were made in 1988 because they all have an 8 in the second slot. We also deduce that the Expert Lady was made in 1987 because we have a 7 in the second slot. Concerning the third slot I have no idea, but I note that all the Centurion Turbo TT's have a C there and the Expert Lady has a K there. I would bet that all Centurion Turbo TT's have a C there. It does show consistency and that it differs from the Expert Lady which makes sense. Then for the next slots which are slots four and five, all the Centurion Turbo TT's here have 4 and 6 in the slots. I am not sure what these slots designate but there is consistency here. On the Expert Lady we have 1 and 6 in these slots which makes sense since they are different than the Centurion Turbo TT's. The last two slots on the Centurion Turbo TT's are all different but within a very tight range. I think these last two slots indicate the number on that exact particular bike. The tight range makes sense since not many were made (my guess is 125 to 200 tops that were manufactured)

Sorry so long but this stuff is a bit technical to figure it all out. Now the Expert Lady is definitely a legitimate Centurion. I know this and have proved it by showing you a color picture from the German Centurion catalog. The Expert Lady has the same letter/#/letter/#### format as the Centurion Turbo TT. And most of us agree that the Turbo TT is a German Centurion made in Japan. The fact that these two different models of German Centurion have the exact same serial number format is a good sign. It shows that the Centurion Turbo TT follows the exact same format that was used on a legitimate German Centurion of the late eighties. This speaks well for the case that the Centurion Turbo Time Trial bicycle is legitimate and authentic i.e. not a fake or a counterfeit. The fact that both models have a Y in the first slot shows consistency. The closeness of the year 1987 and 1988 is a good sign. That is the detective work so far.

Since this post was a ton of work.....Phew! (not complaining) and I am hot on the trail like Sherlock Hommie, it would be much appreciated if any and all of you would give your judgement on my argument and any of your valued insight on it. I depend on Bike Forums for so much and you guys in particular for Centurionology. Let me know what your thoughts and conclusion are. Perhaps T-Mar can be brought in as the Centurion serial number expert. I also direct this post to Pat who gave me the idea to compare serial numbers so thanks.

P.S. Pat, would your serial numbers on your Japanese market Expert be relevant here or would they not because we are talking German Centurions on this issue? What is the Japanese Centurion format and is that relevant?
If anyone wants to see the pictures that back all this up scroll up to post 7331 not far back that I posted.


These are of me hot on the trail of the Mystery of the Centurion Turbo TT......obsessed by a beautiful bicycle.
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Old 09-27-19, 05:05 PM
  #7314  
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While you are researching..

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...etro+synthwave
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Old 09-27-19, 07:24 PM
  #7315  
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Not a tri-bike
I have a 1050 front and a black Deore rear that should go to ten. (The Deore is a bit heavy but will do mega for sure.) AND whoever might be using the repair kit should take advantage tonight of
https://planetcyclery.com/continenta...m_source=zaius
one day only. 41 bucks is a deal if they are even better than the 4000s.

edit: can't wait to see this one. Powder coat, touch up, or just a polish?

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Old 09-27-19, 08:22 PM
  #7316  
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Originally Posted by VintageTTfan View Post
Okay here is the vital part and my overall argument on why the Centurion Turbo TT is not a counterfeit or a fake based on actual serial numbers (I want to see if you agree Pat and anyone else reading this):.
Likelihood these are counterfeit is < 1% in my opinion. There are a few threads on these here and the consensus seems to be they're from the German Centurion company, probably when they were still working with H. Tano in Japan. They seem to have be mostly showing up in Europe, from what I've seen. A few years ago, someone in Great Britain also had a stash of these they were selling, with the forks. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a box of 650C forks waiting to be found somewhere in Greece (that eBay seller threw another frame up for sale, by the way).

You might try going to the German Centurion (the company is Merida & Centurion Germany GmbH) site and emailing them with an inquiry, to see if they recall anything about these frames. I previously did this, to see if they had any connection with WSI (they didn't, other than previously using the same general contractor, H, Tano, in Japan) and they got quickly back to me and were pleased to know that people still dig the old Centurion bikes.
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Old 09-27-19, 09:46 PM
  #7317  
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My Japanese bike serial number would not be relevant to the TT mystery. If you want to solve the mystery, Europe will be your best bet. The post above mine had a good suggestion. Also contact the bike shops located in and around Germany. You might get lucky. My Asian Expert has a faded sticker from the Japanese shop that originally sold it. I looked them up and they are still in business. I also have a Condor that was purchased in the early 70s from the shop in England. They are still in business as well. You might get lucky.
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Old 09-27-19, 09:55 PM
  #7318  
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
We are what we are.

The new mission, should we decide to accept it, is a race-ready road Ironman for use where there is 3500' of climbing over 56 miles. For a working mom.

Not a tri-bike. This will be the essence of what the Ironman is, a road bike that can be hammered on rare triathlon occasions.

Frame-check
Fork-check
Headset-check

Compact crankset-check
Bars-not sure, need to see. 38's or 40's.
Stem-check
Seatpost-need a zero-setback
Saddle-check
Wrap-check
Wheelset-check

Cassette-wide needed, 10sp
RD-long cage needed for 10sp
Shifters-needed for 10-sp
Wheels-check
FD-needed for compact double 10sp
Tires-needed, I may have some
Tubes-needed
Seat bag-check
CO2 inflator/cartridge-check

Tire levers (2)- needed

Let me know. We are expanding our dominance. This is how we roll.
OK, slight change to 8-sp.
Need the following:
1-wide-range cassette, 8sp, not an anchor.
2-a pair of tire levers
3-a pair of tubes, remember, she's racing it.
4-a pair of tires, remember, she's racing it.
5-a zero-setback 27.0 seat post.


'89 Master. 54cm. 2x8 compact brifters with wider rear.
Simply an Ironman.

Everything else, we got. Some people chipped in and didn't even know it.
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Old 09-28-19, 10:47 AM
  #7319  
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Spent the morning organizing parts.
Waffling re: 10-speed, but don't have shifters.
If I can finagle them, this could be really nice.
I'd upgrade everything, and we'd have Ironmaidens across the country.
I think we already have them in CA, TX, and NH...but world dominance is a slow process.

So folks, if you have ideas about 10-sp shifters (even DT versions).
I'm open to trades for the items, of course.


When this is done, I'll trade her the Ironmaiden rocket for hers. Costs a bit, but cheaper than bowling or fishing, right?
Which then creates a new project, likely for me. I'll get it coated and re-create the NotYourDaddy's Ironman, but in a smaller size.
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Old 09-28-19, 11:17 AM
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I got the levers and tubes.
Would a pair of black Conti Gran Prix 700/25 be good enough?
How wide of an 8 speed cassette? 28t big sprocket or 30+?
Last but not least, is this a casual acquaintance or a potential "riding" partner? If it is the 2nd, we might need some juicy details.
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Old 09-28-19, 12:23 PM
  #7321  
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
Spent the morning organizing parts.
Waffling re: 10-speed, but don't have shifters.
If I can finagle them, this could be really nice.
I'd upgrade everything, and we'd have Ironmaidens across the country.
I think we already have them in CA, TX, and NH...but world dominance is a slow process.

So folks, if you have ideas about 10-sp shifters (even DT versions).
I'm open to trades for the items, of course.


When this is done, I'll trade her the Ironmaiden rocket for hers. Costs a bit, but cheaper than bowling or fishing, right?
Which then creates a new project, likely for me. I'll get it coated and re-create the NotYourDaddy's Ironman, but in a smaller size.
So back to 10 speed right?
Because I think I have some 8 speed stuff.
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Old 09-28-19, 01:19 PM
  #7322  
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Originally Posted by texaspandj View Post
So back to 10 speed right?
Because I think I have some 8 speed stuff.
Yes, mainly because of what I have on hand.
Plus, to go from 7sp tricolor to 8sp tricolor doesn't do a lot for the bike, performance-wise.

I, too, have a ton of 8sp stuff, including Sora brifters, 6400 brifters, and 2/3 x 8 downtube shifters.

However, I do not have any wide-range 8-sp cassettes, and they are heavy. I do have some 10-sp cassettes which go wide enough.

Looks like all I need are a set of 10-sp brifters or DT shifters, and I can toss this thing together.
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Old 09-28-19, 01:32 PM
  #7323  
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
OK, slight change to 8-sp.
Need the following:
1-wide-range cassette, 8sp, not an anchor.
2-a pair of tire levers
3-a pair of tubes, remember, she's racing it.
4-a pair of tires, remember, she's racing it.
5-a zero-setback 27.0 seat post.


'89 Master. 54cm. 2x8 compact brifters with wider rear.
Simply an Ironman.

Everything else, we got. Some people chipped in and didn't even know it.
I have a cassette but its 10 speed I would have to see what it is for sure but I am thinking its 12-28 or 12-26 and some FSA 130 bdc 9/10 speed chain rings in case you decide to go 10 speed.
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Old 09-28-19, 01:48 PM
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Old 09-28-19, 02:03 PM
  #7325  
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
Yes, mainly because of what I have on hand.
Plus, to go from 7sp tricolor to 8sp tricolor doesn't do a lot for the bike, performance-wise.

I, too, have a ton of 8sp stuff, including Sora brifters, 6400 brifters, and 2/3 x 8 downtube shifters.

However, I do not have any wide-range 8-sp cassettes, and they are heavy. I do have some 10-sp cassettes which go wide enough.

Looks like all I need are a set of 10-sp brifters or DT shifters, and I can toss this thing together.
I have had to buy new shifters when I went 10 speed. I used the Dura Ace 7900 that are usually about $65. I could chip in a little towards a set if it would help.
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