Broken Spokes: Better Rim for Clydesdale?
#26
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The Stu-Tru $45 wheel is no better, maybe worse, than what you have. The linked on is 700c, but I’m sure they have a 26 inch.
A tandem wheel has to support the weight of two people. Generally 36 hole or 40 hole. The other wheel is the Cliffhanger that Oneder linked to. But I can’t say if the NoBS or the Ciffhanger is stronger, both are listed under Velocity’s tech docs under tandem. Cliffhanger is more expensive, but they are both over 600 grams.
Keep in mind, even at those prices you are going to get a lower end hub, but that shouldn’t be an issue.
John
A tandem wheel has to support the weight of two people. Generally 36 hole or 40 hole. The other wheel is the Cliffhanger that Oneder linked to. But I can’t say if the NoBS or the Ciffhanger is stronger, both are listed under Velocity’s tech docs under tandem. Cliffhanger is more expensive, but they are both over 600 grams.
Keep in mind, even at those prices you are going to get a lower end hub, but that shouldn’t be an issue.
John
#27
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Hopefully this isn't too dumb of a question - but what is a tandem wheel, and what's the difference between it and the $45 wheel cyccommute linked? With the Velocity rim, would I be able to use the 7-speed cassette in cyccommute's response?
I have 26x2.0 tires on this bike, and I'm not sure how much wider I can go. Since I have to buy a new rear tire (hole in the sidewall), would it be a good idea to bump it up to a slightly wider tire? Though the widest 26" Schwalbe Marathon is 26x2.0 - which is what I have now.
I have 26x2.0 tires on this bike, and I'm not sure how much wider I can go. Since I have to buy a new rear tire (hole in the sidewall), would it be a good idea to bump it up to a slightly wider tire? Though the widest 26" Schwalbe Marathon is 26x2.0 - which is what I have now.
To simplify your shopping get the wheel that oneder linked to, it is the one to go with for the money and value. It is only 129.00 which is a bargain price on a rim that started as a heavy duty/DH rim, it has the right number of spokes and the deore hub is the trekking model. Not the best of the line but a sturdy, dependable long lasting hub designed for a loaded bike. It's also a quality wheel, don't know if its still true but when I worked in a shop they did all their wheels by machine to begin with then each wheel was stressed and brought to final tension by hand so not just a basic cheap machine build.
7sp spacer https://www.modernbike.com/problem-s...d-alloy-spacer
Don't know your exact gearing but here's a 12-32 cassette, you can check your current and match it but I suspect its a mega range which can be 32 0r 34 https://www.modernbike.com/shimano-c...2-32t-cassette
You could probably call in the order and ask them to install the cassette and spacer so it arrives at your door ready to install. With luck you won't even need to tweak the der. Which means your looking at about 150 shipped so under your 200 preference.
Sounds like your bike store guy is useless (a big problem here, too). I would not bother with him any more.
https://www.modernbike.com/quality-w...ffhanger-black
https://www.modernbike.com/quality-w...ffhanger-black
Last edited by Russ Roth; 05-05-20 at 11:19 PM.
#28
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what is a tandem wheel?
I have 26x2.0 tires on this bike, and I'm not sure how much wider I can go. Since I have to buy a new rear tire (hole in the sidewall), would it be a good idea to bump it up to a slightly wider tire? Though the widest 26" Schwalbe Marathon is 26x2.0 - which is what I have now.
I have 26x2.0 tires on this bike, and I'm not sure how much wider I can go. Since I have to buy a new rear tire (hole in the sidewall), would it be a good idea to bump it up to a slightly wider tire? Though the widest 26" Schwalbe Marathon is 26x2.0 - which is what I have now.
26x2.0 tires tires are fine. If heavy people ride road bikes, or bikes with thin tires, they are likely to have pinch flats. When they hit a rock, the tire can compress all the way to the rim and cut the tire. It is also harsher on the rim, which is harsher on the spokes, and they may break sooner than a bike with a wider tire.
I am amazed what my fat bike takes, with 4 inch wide tires. I take it on rough tracks. Every time I hit a bump, the wheel bashes the ground with a force equal to most of my body weight. It has not broken yet. Clearly the big tires spread the forces out more.
If going to a wider tire size, check the space between the frame and the tire. If there is a lot of space, you can use a wider tire.
I also look at these things from an economical point of view. If when buying a tire, a slightly wider one is available at a not much higher price, you may want to get it. If the wider tires are significantly more expensive, there is no need to go for a wider one.
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Of course that is why the previous owner trashed it, and I scored a nice bike for free. I just needed to do some repairs.
#31
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Don't know your exact gearing but here's a 12-32 cassette, you can check your current and match it but I suspect its a mega range which can be 32 0r 34 https://www.modernbike.com/shimano-c...2-32t-cassette
You could probably call in the order and ask them to install the cassette and spacer so it arrives at your door ready to install. With luck you won't even need to tweak the der. Which means your looking at about 150 shipped so under your 200 preference.
You could probably call in the order and ask them to install the cassette and spacer so it arrives at your door ready to install. With luck you won't even need to tweak the der. Which means your looking at about 150 shipped so under your 200 preference.
If I need to tweak the derailleur, how would I do that? I'm not super mechanically-inclined, so I try to avoid working on the mechanical parts of the bike (gears, derailleurs, etc.) so I don't make things worse.
A tandem bike is a bike that 2 people ride, one behind the other. A wheel for a tandem bike is normally stronger, as it needs to take the weight of 2 people. A heavy person could use a wheel built for a tandem bike, on a regular bike.
26x2.0 tires tires are fine. If heavy people ride road bikes, or bikes with thin tires, they are likely to have pinch flats. When they hit a rock, the tire can compress all the way to the rim and cut the tire. It is also harsher on the rim, which is harsher on the spokes, and they may break sooner than a bike with a wider tire.
I am amazed what my fat bike takes, with 4 inch wide tires. I take it on rough tracks. Every time I hit a bump, the wheel bashes the ground with a force equal to most of my body weight. It has not broken yet. Clearly the big tires spread the forces out more.
If going to a wider tire size, check the space between the frame and the tire. If there is a lot of space, you can use a wider tire.
I also look at these things from an economical point of view. If when buying a tire, a slightly wider one is available at a not much higher price, you may want to get it. If the wider tires are significantly more expensive, there is no need to go for a wider one.
26x2.0 tires tires are fine. If heavy people ride road bikes, or bikes with thin tires, they are likely to have pinch flats. When they hit a rock, the tire can compress all the way to the rim and cut the tire. It is also harsher on the rim, which is harsher on the spokes, and they may break sooner than a bike with a wider tire.
I am amazed what my fat bike takes, with 4 inch wide tires. I take it on rough tracks. Every time I hit a bump, the wheel bashes the ground with a force equal to most of my body weight. It has not broken yet. Clearly the big tires spread the forces out more.
If going to a wider tire size, check the space between the frame and the tire. If there is a lot of space, you can use a wider tire.
I also look at these things from an economical point of view. If when buying a tire, a slightly wider one is available at a not much higher price, you may want to get it. If the wider tires are significantly more expensive, there is no need to go for a wider one.
Up until December 2018, I rode a 1987 Free Spirit Pinnacle as a daily rider. The Pinnacle is a road bike with 27x1 1/4" tires, which I always had to underinflate because the recommended 90 PSI would blow the tire right off the rim. (Rim lacked the bead hook.) While the rims are bent on that bike, they never completely "taco'd" - they were bent ever so slightly, but never to the point where the bike was unrideable. I never broke a hub or spoke on that bike, either. Back when I was in middle school I would take that bike for trips on the Katy Trail (grew up in Boonville, Mo.), as it was the only bike I had. Even then it held up fine. I can remember one time I got a flat on the Katy Trail and it was getting dark, so I hightailed it back by riding the Pinnacle about 8 miles down the gravel Katy Trail on a flat tire. That likely did not help the rim any. But regardless of the abuse I put that bike through, it handled it all. I finally retired it as the rims really need to be replaced, some of the spokes are really rusty and the rim is starting to develop holes that don't seem very safe.
I like the look and feel of the Marathon tires, they actually match the bike's paint scheme almost perfectly. I've had them setup tubeless (despite being labeled as a "tube type" tire) using the "ghetto tubeless" (split BMX tube method) and they seem to mount fine, though they don't work with the gorilla tubeless method, and they are more difficult to seat after the tire is broken in. (Possibly dried up sealant causing difficulties?) The tubeless seems to work fine when you get the tire inflated with the sealant. I had no issues with the front tire (which was setup as tubeless) until today, when I accidentally broke the valve. The rear was setup tubeless for a while but I had to stuff a tube in it, and for the past month (~50 miles) I've been riding with a jury-rigged tire "boot" made out of some cloth, a piece of an old inner tube and gorilla tape covering a hole that a nail ripped into the sidewall.
I'm thinking about just purchasing another Marathon, so that I'll continue to have matching tires that also complement the frame's color scheme pretty well. I was going to experiment with the Conti Double Fighter tire (they're around the same price), but it's slightly narrower (26x1.9") and doesn't match at all - and I heard it has a much thinner sidewall and very little puncture protection, whereas the Marathons have a pretty decent amount of puncture protection. (Although not perfect - as a lousy nail will demonstrate.) So far the Marathons ride nice and smooth, and are not as noisy as the stock Kendas were. I'm also able to run the Marathons at slightly lower pressures; I had to ride the stock Kenda tires right at their max pressures (60 PSI front, 65 rear) but 40/50-60 is a pretty good combination on the Marathons.
Off topic/slightly random question but would like to see what people say: should I do a tubeless setup on the new rear tire, depending on the rim?
Back on topic... what is the main difference between the $129 Quality Wheels wheel and the $129 Velocity Cliffhanger? On the Velocity NoBS rims, how do I know if they'd fit my bike? Is it okay just to replace the rear wheel and keep the stock front wheel?
#32
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The current rear gear is a 14-34T Shimano MegaRange Super-Low. The rear derailleur is a Shimano Tourney, and the shifters are Sram grip shifters. The specs for the whole bike is listed on Giant's website, and this bike is mostly stock. The only thing different is the tires (they've been replaced with 26x2.0" Schwalbe Marathons), and there are some aftermarket add-ons (a basket and kickstand.)
If I need to tweak the derailleur, how would I do that? I'm not super mechanically-inclined, so I try to avoid working on the mechanical parts of the bike (gears, derailleurs, etc.) so I don't make things worse.
I got this bike back in December 2018. While I'm not sure of the total miles, I'd say it has less than 250 miles on it. I just got Strava back in December (2019), and since then I've logged 144 miles total. I doubt I even rode 50 miles in 2019 because I was mostly just going to class and back, whereas lately I've been going on longer trips.
It took 70sSanO's response for the whole tandem thing to click.
Up until December 2018, I rode a 1987 Free Spirit Pinnacle as a daily rider. The Pinnacle is a road bike with 27x1 1/4" tires, which I always had to underinflate because the recommended 90 PSI would blow the tire right off the rim. (Rim lacked the bead hook.) While the rims are bent on that bike, they never completely "taco'd" - they were bent ever so slightly, but never to the point where the bike was unrideable. I never broke a hub or spoke on that bike, either. Back when I was in middle school I would take that bike for trips on the Katy Trail (grew up in Boonville, Mo.), as it was the only bike I had. Even then it held up fine. I can remember one time I got a flat on the Katy Trail and it was getting dark, so I hightailed it back by riding the Pinnacle about 8 miles down the gravel Katy Trail on a flat tire. That likely did not help the rim any. But regardless of the abuse I put that bike through, it handled it all. I finally retired it as the rims really need to be replaced, some of the spokes are really rusty and the rim is starting to develop holes that don't seem very safe.
I like the look and feel of the Marathon tires, they actually match the bike's paint scheme almost perfectly. I've had them setup tubeless (despite being labeled as a "tube type" tire) using the "ghetto tubeless" (split BMX tube method) and they seem to mount fine, though they don't work with the gorilla tubeless method, and they are more difficult to seat after the tire is broken in. (Possibly dried up sealant causing difficulties?) The tubeless seems to work fine when you get the tire inflated with the sealant. I had no issues with the front tire (which was setup as tubeless) until today, when I accidentally broke the valve. The rear was setup tubeless for a while but I had to stuff a tube in it, and for the past month (~50 miles) I've been riding with a jury-rigged tire "boot" made out of some cloth, a piece of an old inner tube and gorilla tape covering a hole that a nail ripped into the sidewall.
I'm thinking about just purchasing another Marathon, so that I'll continue to have matching tires that also complement the frame's color scheme pretty well. I was going to experiment with the Conti Double Fighter tire (they're around the same price), but it's slightly narrower (26x1.9") and doesn't match at all - and I heard it has a much thinner sidewall and very little puncture protection, whereas the Marathons have a pretty decent amount of puncture protection. (Although not perfect - as a lousy nail will demonstrate.) So far the Marathons ride nice and smooth, and are not as noisy as the stock Kendas were. I'm also able to run the Marathons at slightly lower pressures; I had to ride the stock Kenda tires right at their max pressures (60 PSI front, 65 rear) but 40/50-60 is a pretty good combination on the Marathons.
Off topic/slightly random question but would like to see what people say: should I do a tubeless setup on the new rear tire, depending on the rim?
Back on topic... what is the main difference between the $129 Quality Wheels wheel and the $129 Velocity Cliffhanger? On the Velocity NoBS rims, how do I know if they'd fit my bike? Is it okay just to replace the rear wheel and keep the stock front wheel?
If I need to tweak the derailleur, how would I do that? I'm not super mechanically-inclined, so I try to avoid working on the mechanical parts of the bike (gears, derailleurs, etc.) so I don't make things worse.
I got this bike back in December 2018. While I'm not sure of the total miles, I'd say it has less than 250 miles on it. I just got Strava back in December (2019), and since then I've logged 144 miles total. I doubt I even rode 50 miles in 2019 because I was mostly just going to class and back, whereas lately I've been going on longer trips.
It took 70sSanO's response for the whole tandem thing to click.
Up until December 2018, I rode a 1987 Free Spirit Pinnacle as a daily rider. The Pinnacle is a road bike with 27x1 1/4" tires, which I always had to underinflate because the recommended 90 PSI would blow the tire right off the rim. (Rim lacked the bead hook.) While the rims are bent on that bike, they never completely "taco'd" - they were bent ever so slightly, but never to the point where the bike was unrideable. I never broke a hub or spoke on that bike, either. Back when I was in middle school I would take that bike for trips on the Katy Trail (grew up in Boonville, Mo.), as it was the only bike I had. Even then it held up fine. I can remember one time I got a flat on the Katy Trail and it was getting dark, so I hightailed it back by riding the Pinnacle about 8 miles down the gravel Katy Trail on a flat tire. That likely did not help the rim any. But regardless of the abuse I put that bike through, it handled it all. I finally retired it as the rims really need to be replaced, some of the spokes are really rusty and the rim is starting to develop holes that don't seem very safe.
I like the look and feel of the Marathon tires, they actually match the bike's paint scheme almost perfectly. I've had them setup tubeless (despite being labeled as a "tube type" tire) using the "ghetto tubeless" (split BMX tube method) and they seem to mount fine, though they don't work with the gorilla tubeless method, and they are more difficult to seat after the tire is broken in. (Possibly dried up sealant causing difficulties?) The tubeless seems to work fine when you get the tire inflated with the sealant. I had no issues with the front tire (which was setup as tubeless) until today, when I accidentally broke the valve. The rear was setup tubeless for a while but I had to stuff a tube in it, and for the past month (~50 miles) I've been riding with a jury-rigged tire "boot" made out of some cloth, a piece of an old inner tube and gorilla tape covering a hole that a nail ripped into the sidewall.
I'm thinking about just purchasing another Marathon, so that I'll continue to have matching tires that also complement the frame's color scheme pretty well. I was going to experiment with the Conti Double Fighter tire (they're around the same price), but it's slightly narrower (26x1.9") and doesn't match at all - and I heard it has a much thinner sidewall and very little puncture protection, whereas the Marathons have a pretty decent amount of puncture protection. (Although not perfect - as a lousy nail will demonstrate.) So far the Marathons ride nice and smooth, and are not as noisy as the stock Kendas were. I'm also able to run the Marathons at slightly lower pressures; I had to ride the stock Kenda tires right at their max pressures (60 PSI front, 65 rear) but 40/50-60 is a pretty good combination on the Marathons.
Off topic/slightly random question but would like to see what people say: should I do a tubeless setup on the new rear tire, depending on the rim?
Back on topic... what is the main difference between the $129 Quality Wheels wheel and the $129 Velocity Cliffhanger? On the Velocity NoBS rims, how do I know if they'd fit my bike? Is it okay just to replace the rear wheel and keep the stock front wheel?
One is a Cliffhanger rim, the other is a NoBS rim. As to which is "better" for you, I can not say. I own Chukkers for my tandem, Dyads/Aeroheats for my touring bike, Atlas for my mountain bike & A23's for my gravel bike & my road bike. (Velocity fanboy here, I guess )
I will say that According to Velocity the Cliffhanger will be good for a tire 45 to 65mm wide. The NoBS will be good for a tire 28mm to 45mm wide. So, given that either is about the strongest they make, pick the one that suits the tire width you plan on running....The Cliff Hanger. is probably the right choice given that you are on 2 inch wide tires now.
Bikes are modular in construction. 1 wheel will not care about the other wheel any more than a bottle cage will be concerned about your saddle.
Side topic: I'd only run tubeless with approved tubeless tires & rims. Lots of people, whether they intend to or not, make a game out of seeing just how badly they can do a thing wrong or neglect best practices.
Ask yourself: "How much dental work would I like to have if I go over the bars like a sack of potatoes at 30 mph?" Let the answer to that question be your guide.
At your size, you are already on the higher risk end of the spectrum. The Cliffhanger is tubeless ready, though. So with a proper tubeless tire, you might be in business. The front though, that is a seperate issue & can be addressed later with a tubeless ready rim & tire after we get the rear sorted.
Last edited by base2; 05-06-20 at 02:14 AM.
#34
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Unless you are having issues with flats don’t go tubeless. Tubeless setups first came out to run lower pressure when mountain biking and not get pinch flats. It was all about lighter weight and higher traction.
Tires by themselves don’t stop any tire punctures. Anything that will penetrate a tire (glass, metal, goatheads, etc.) still happens. It is the sealant in the tire that stops the air from escaping.
Based on your miles, and finances, only you can decide if it is worth the extra cost. You’ll have to pay the LBS to initially install the tire and sealant; and if you ever do break a spoke, it’ll probably be a bigger hassle.
Might be worth it if you are having a lot of flats and going through tubes. If not it is a convenience item.
John
Tires by themselves don’t stop any tire punctures. Anything that will penetrate a tire (glass, metal, goatheads, etc.) still happens. It is the sealant in the tire that stops the air from escaping.
Based on your miles, and finances, only you can decide if it is worth the extra cost. You’ll have to pay the LBS to initially install the tire and sealant; and if you ever do break a spoke, it’ll probably be a bigger hassle.
Might be worth it if you are having a lot of flats and going through tubes. If not it is a convenience item.
John
#35
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One is a Cliffhanger rim, the other is a NoBS rim. As to which is "better" for you, I can not say. I own Chukkers for my tandem, Dyads/Aeroheats for my touring bike, Atlas for my mountain bike & A23's for my gravel bike & my road bike. (Velocity fanboy here, I guess )
I will say that According to Velocity the Cliffhanger will be good for a tire 45 to 65mm wide. The NoBS will be good for a tire 28mm to 45mm wide. So, given that either is about the strongest they make, pick the one that suits the tire width you plan on running....The Cliff Hanger. is probably the right choice given that you are on 2 inch wide tires now..
I will say that According to Velocity the Cliffhanger will be good for a tire 45 to 65mm wide. The NoBS will be good for a tire 28mm to 45mm wide. So, given that either is about the strongest they make, pick the one that suits the tire width you plan on running....The Cliff Hanger. is probably the right choice given that you are on 2 inch wide tires now..
The current rear gear is a 14-34T Shimano MegaRange Super-Low. The rear derailleur is a Shimano Tourney, and the shifters are Sram grip shifters. The specs for the whole bike is listed on Giant's website, and this bike is mostly stock. The only thing different is the tires (they've been replaced with 26x2.0" Schwalbe Marathons), and there are some aftermarket add-ons (a basket and kickstand.)
If I need to tweak the derailleur, how would I do that? I'm not super mechanically-inclined, so I try to avoid working on the mechanical parts of the bike (gears, derailleurs, etc.) so I don't make things worse.
Back on topic... what is the main difference between the $129 Quality Wheels wheel and the $129 Velocity Cliffhanger? On the Velocity NoBS rims, how do I know if they'd fit my bike? Is it okay just to replace the rear wheel and keep the stock front wheel?
If I need to tweak the derailleur, how would I do that? I'm not super mechanically-inclined, so I try to avoid working on the mechanical parts of the bike (gears, derailleurs, etc.) so I don't make things worse.
Back on topic... what is the main difference between the $129 Quality Wheels wheel and the $129 Velocity Cliffhanger? On the Velocity NoBS rims, how do I know if they'd fit my bike? Is it okay just to replace the rear wheel and keep the stock front wheel?
Sunrace has produced some decent stuff, my inclination would be to stick with the shimano I posted first and you may not need the 34t, a 32t is close, but I know a lot of people are going sunrace with 11sp due to quality, weight and price being a good combination and I never had a problem with the bikes their low end cassettes came on. Wouldn't say the same for their freewheels but cassettes are simpler objects. In regards to ders and shifters, 7 speed is 7 speed, the spacing is the same and the chain will run the same over them.
Tweaking the der is done with the 2 screws on it that are usually next to each other, one has a L next to it the other an H, because spacing to the smallest gear can be fairly consistent and you're sticking with 7 speeds you may have to do nothing. There are tutorials on this one and I can make a short video if you end up needing one. Since you're not making a major change to the shifting there isn't a lot to this one.
Both are Quality wheels, meaning both were built by QBP (quality bicycle parts) which is one of the largest bicycle parts distributors in the US and a company most every bike shop deals with. They do a decent assembly job. Neither rim will have a problem running through your frame, both rims are made by Velocity which is a USA made rim, used to be Australia and I still run on a pair of their Australian rims.
I also would not go tubeless, it has its upsides but a good tire like you're thinking of shouldn't get that many flats and you can always change those. The cost of going tubeless is high and not worth it for a recreational rider in my opinion.
#36
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Spokes don’t break because of impacts. The shock of the impact is certainly lessen by the tire but the shock of an impact doesn’t really drive up the spoke because of how the spoke and rim interact. The rim is held in place by tension. Impacts cause the rim to ride up the spoke but it doesn’t hit the end of the spoke. Even if you were to buckle the rim, the spoke only becomes loose. It doesn’t see any compression.
The real reason for spoke breakage is not the “up and down” movement of spokes but the natural bending from side-to-side movement of the spoke as the bicycle moves down the road. The very act of pedaling causes the wheel to lean one way and then the other. The spokes experience this as a bending out of plane force which stresses the bend and starts to fatigue it. The more bending and the larger the magnitude of the bending, the more stress on the spoke.
If you put more meat at the point where the spoke breaks...i.e. the elbow...the spoke is more able to resist that bending. Increase the spoke diameter by 0.3mm (from 2.0mm to 2.3mm) and the strength increases by 32%. Ric Hjertberg says that it’s the equivalent of adding 10 spokes. That might be an overstatement but my own experience says that it’s at least the equivalent of going up to the next hub drilling. In other words, using the 2.3mm spokes on a 36 spoke wheel is at least the equivalent of going to a 40 spoke wheel.
I ride mountain bikes with 2.2” tires to road bikes with 23mm tires and other sizes in between. I’m not worried about breaking spokes because of the width of the tire. I build wheels based not on the strength of the rim, hub or, for that matter, tires. I build them based on the part of the wheel that does the work.
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Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
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#37
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Unfortunately, there are no co-ops around here. I live in a rural area.
Thank you so much for your help. The wheel in the link is 700c; my bike's current wheels are 26" (the tires I'm running right now is 26x2.0".) Is there a version that will fit my bike? I will need the locking tool, although I obviously have tire levers and a pump.
Thank you so much for your help. The wheel in the link is 700c; my bike's current wheels are 26" (the tires I'm running right now is 26x2.0".) Is there a version that will fit my bike? I will need the locking tool, although I obviously have tire levers and a pump.
Just to be clear, this is a cheap(ish) way of getting to a freehub to solve your broken axle problem. It might help with the spoke breakage problem for a while but I doubt that the spokes would be durable forever. The wheel would probably benefit from adding tension to the spokes which would keep them from breaking quite so readily.
The best solution would be to work with a shop and have them order a wheel from Quality Bicycle Products that is made with 36 holes and DT Apline III spokes. But that route is going to cost you around $175 to $200. While that may seem like a lot to spend on a relatively inexpensive bike, breaking wheels adds up over time.
On the other hand, buying a more expensive bike probably won’t solve the problem. Wheels are under built no matter what the cost of the bicycle...especially for heavier riders.
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Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
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#38
"Broke College Student"
Thread Starter
I see the LBS owner still hasn't capitulated & the $70 Zac19 has not been purchased. Fair enough. The $129 choices are by far the better choices anyhow.
One is a Cliffhanger rim, the other is a NoBS rim. As to which is "better" for you, I can not say. I own Chukkers for my tandem, Dyads/Aeroheats for my touring bike, Atlas for my mountain bike & A23's for my gravel bike & my road bike. (Velocity fanboy here, I guess )
I will say that According to Velocity the Cliffhanger will be good for a tire 45 to 65mm wide. The NoBS will be good for a tire 28mm to 45mm wide. So, given that either is about the strongest they make, pick the one that suits the tire width you plan on running....The Cliff Hanger. is probably the right choice given that you are on 2 inch wide tires now.
At your size, you are already on the higher risk end of the spectrum. The Cliffhanger is tubeless ready, though. So with a proper tubeless tire, you might be in business. The front though, that is a seperate issue & can be addressed later with a tubeless ready rim & tire after we get the rear sorted.
One is a Cliffhanger rim, the other is a NoBS rim. As to which is "better" for you, I can not say. I own Chukkers for my tandem, Dyads/Aeroheats for my touring bike, Atlas for my mountain bike & A23's for my gravel bike & my road bike. (Velocity fanboy here, I guess )
I will say that According to Velocity the Cliffhanger will be good for a tire 45 to 65mm wide. The NoBS will be good for a tire 28mm to 45mm wide. So, given that either is about the strongest they make, pick the one that suits the tire width you plan on running....The Cliff Hanger. is probably the right choice given that you are on 2 inch wide tires now.
At your size, you are already on the higher risk end of the spectrum. The Cliffhanger is tubeless ready, though. So with a proper tubeless tire, you might be in business. The front though, that is a seperate issue & can be addressed later with a tubeless ready rim & tire after we get the rear sorted.
As for the tubeless, I've been running the front tubeless already. I put ~145 miles on a tubeless front tire, as I did the conversion when the front tire was new - and I got Strava around that time. But I might just stuff a tube in it and run it as it was intended... and not have to worry about topping off sealant every 6 months or going to a gas station to re-seat the tire if needed.
The only complaint I have with running Stan's in tubes is it seems to gum up the valve if you forget to shake the Stan's before adding. (Learned the hard way.) But if you remember to shake the Stan's before adding, it works well. It's far better than Slime, which is 99% likely to gum up the valve. I even tried the Michelin ProtekMax tubes, but they too kept gumming valves.
I ended up with deep-v on my tandem, in hindsight I wish I'd gone wider, dyads on the touring bike, a23 on the road bike, aeroheats on my original road bike and just got ailerons for the cross bike I'm building. It is a good brand to rely on.
https://www.modernbike.com/sunrace-c...sette---11-34t
Sunrace has produced some decent stuff, my inclination would be to stick with the shimano I posted first and you may not need the 34t, a 32t is close, but I know a lot of people are going sunrace with 11sp due to quality, weight and price being a good combination and I never had a problem with the bikes their low end cassettes came on. Wouldn't say the same for their freewheels but cassettes are simpler objects. In regards to ders and shifters, 7 speed is 7 speed, the spacing is the same and the chain will run the same over them.
Tweaking the der is done with the 2 screws on it that are usually next to each other, one has a L next to it the other an H, because spacing to the smallest gear can be fairly consistent and you're sticking with 7 speeds you may have to do nothing. There are tutorials on this one and I can make a short video if you end up needing one. Since you're not making a major change to the shifting there isn't a lot to this one.
Both are Quality wheels, meaning both were built by QBP (quality bicycle parts) which is one of the largest bicycle parts distributors in the US and a company most every bike shop deals with. They do a decent assembly job. Neither rim will have a problem running through your frame, both rims are made by Velocity which is a USA made rim, used to be Australia and I still run on a pair of their Australian rims.
I've decided to do this with my cross bike with some 700x27 paris-roubaix tires which are meant to be sturdy but light. The problem is now that I live on Long Island I've had more flats on my car in 2 years then I did in the 23 years prior. So I'm not trusting the roads enough for this one.
I also would not go tubeless, it has its upsides but a good tire like you're thinking of shouldn't get that many flats and you can always change those. The cost of going tubeless is high and not worth it for a recreational rider in my opinion.
https://www.modernbike.com/sunrace-c...sette---11-34t
Sunrace has produced some decent stuff, my inclination would be to stick with the shimano I posted first and you may not need the 34t, a 32t is close, but I know a lot of people are going sunrace with 11sp due to quality, weight and price being a good combination and I never had a problem with the bikes their low end cassettes came on. Wouldn't say the same for their freewheels but cassettes are simpler objects. In regards to ders and shifters, 7 speed is 7 speed, the spacing is the same and the chain will run the same over them.
Tweaking the der is done with the 2 screws on it that are usually next to each other, one has a L next to it the other an H, because spacing to the smallest gear can be fairly consistent and you're sticking with 7 speeds you may have to do nothing. There are tutorials on this one and I can make a short video if you end up needing one. Since you're not making a major change to the shifting there isn't a lot to this one.
Both are Quality wheels, meaning both were built by QBP (quality bicycle parts) which is one of the largest bicycle parts distributors in the US and a company most every bike shop deals with. They do a decent assembly job. Neither rim will have a problem running through your frame, both rims are made by Velocity which is a USA made rim, used to be Australia and I still run on a pair of their Australian rims.
I've decided to do this with my cross bike with some 700x27 paris-roubaix tires which are meant to be sturdy but light. The problem is now that I live on Long Island I've had more flats on my car in 2 years then I did in the 23 years prior. So I'm not trusting the roads enough for this one.
I also would not go tubeless, it has its upsides but a good tire like you're thinking of shouldn't get that many flats and you can always change those. The cost of going tubeless is high and not worth it for a recreational rider in my opinion.
As for adjusting the derailleur, that is what I was thinking but not sure. This bike has been having shifting problems a lot lately, as the bike will randomly slip gears - especially when pedaling hard - unless it's in the 1st-3rd or 7th gear on the rear. While rare, I've also had issues with the chain slipping off the front gears, as well.
Tubeless seems more a novelty than anything else considering all of the things I've read online. The only times I've heard it's advantageous is if you want to ride lower pressures (but you trade one evil for another - pinch flats for the possibility of rim damage) or you have lots of flats (but I've heard a good tire with thorn-resistant or tubes with sealant can also remedy this problem.) In my case, it likely is just a novelty - I ride at relatively normal pressures (40 PSI front/50-65 PSI rear) so I don't have to worry about pinch flats and while I flat often (lots of road debris), I can put Stan's in the tubes or just patch tubes. Tubes seem easier to work with (don't have to go to a gas station just to get it to inflate) but I guess it's just having something "special" on my bike. I guess base2 put it best:
Lots of people, whether they intend to or not, make a game out of seeing just how badly they can do a thing wrong or neglect best practices.
#39
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That Cliffhanger wheel is a good choice. It is setup for a presta valve, which is not a big deal. All of my bikes are presta, for me it is a much better setup.
If your pump can fill both, just use the presta side. You'll need to get a presta valve tube for the new wheel. You shouild also get a presta to schrader valve adapter ($2) to carry with you in case you want to add air at a gas station, or if your pump is only schrader. Personally, I would eventually replace all my tubes to ones with presta valves. You should get an adapter nut ($2) for the front wheel if you want to run a presta valve in your existing rim.
You will need a 4.5mm spacer ($5) to put on the freehub to run a 7 speed cassette and a Shimano lockring tool ($8). Sunrace is a good choice for a 7 speed cassette. Go to their site and look at the options. Cheapest way is to get one that has the same tooth large cog so you don't need to replace the chain because it is too short. After 250 miles there is no reason to replace it now.
You will probably need to adjust the derailleur limit screws and the indexing. When you get to that point, you can check out videos or ask back here.
John
If your pump can fill both, just use the presta side. You'll need to get a presta valve tube for the new wheel. You shouild also get a presta to schrader valve adapter ($2) to carry with you in case you want to add air at a gas station, or if your pump is only schrader. Personally, I would eventually replace all my tubes to ones with presta valves. You should get an adapter nut ($2) for the front wheel if you want to run a presta valve in your existing rim.
You will need a 4.5mm spacer ($5) to put on the freehub to run a 7 speed cassette and a Shimano lockring tool ($8). Sunrace is a good choice for a 7 speed cassette. Go to their site and look at the options. Cheapest way is to get one that has the same tooth large cog so you don't need to replace the chain because it is too short. After 250 miles there is no reason to replace it now.
You will probably need to adjust the derailleur limit screws and the indexing. When you get to that point, you can check out videos or ask back here.
John
Last edited by 70sSanO; 05-06-20 at 11:26 AM.
#40
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That may be your preference but the wide of the tire has little to do with the strength of the wheel. Everyone dances around the real issue when it comes to broken spokes. They blame the tires, the rim, how the bike is ridden, etc. but they never address the issue. If the spoke breaks, it’s not because the tires are too narrow. The spoke breaks because the spoke isn’t up to the job.
Spokes don’t break because of impacts. The shock of the impact is certainly lessen by the tire but the shock of an impact doesn’t really drive up the spoke because of how the spoke and rim interact. The rim is held in place by tension. Impacts cause the rim to ride up the spoke but it doesn’t hit the end of the spoke. Even if you were to buckle the rim, the spoke only becomes loose. It doesn’t see any compression.
The real reason for spoke breakage is not the “up and down” movement of spokes but the natural bending from side-to-side movement of the spoke as the bicycle moves down the road. The very act of pedaling causes the wheel to lean one way and then the other. The spokes experience this as a bending out of plane force which stresses the bend and starts to fatigue it. The more bending and the larger the magnitude of the bending, the more stress on the spoke.
If you put more meat at the point where the spoke breaks...i.e. the elbow...the spoke is more able to resist that bending. Increase the spoke diameter by 0.3mm (from 2.0mm to 2.3mm) and the strength increases by 32%. Ric Hjertberg says that it’s the equivalent of adding 10 spokes. That might be an overstatement but my own experience says that it’s at least the equivalent of going up to the next hub drilling. In other words, using the 2.3mm spokes on a 36 spoke wheel is at least the equivalent of going to a 40 spoke wheel.
I ride mountain bikes with 2.2” tires to road bikes with 23mm tires and other sizes in between. I’m not worried about breaking spokes because of the width of the tire. I build wheels based not on the strength of the rim, hub or, for that matter, tires. I build them based on the part of the wheel that does the work.
Spokes don’t break because of impacts. The shock of the impact is certainly lessen by the tire but the shock of an impact doesn’t really drive up the spoke because of how the spoke and rim interact. The rim is held in place by tension. Impacts cause the rim to ride up the spoke but it doesn’t hit the end of the spoke. Even if you were to buckle the rim, the spoke only becomes loose. It doesn’t see any compression.
The real reason for spoke breakage is not the “up and down” movement of spokes but the natural bending from side-to-side movement of the spoke as the bicycle moves down the road. The very act of pedaling causes the wheel to lean one way and then the other. The spokes experience this as a bending out of plane force which stresses the bend and starts to fatigue it. The more bending and the larger the magnitude of the bending, the more stress on the spoke.
If you put more meat at the point where the spoke breaks...i.e. the elbow...the spoke is more able to resist that bending. Increase the spoke diameter by 0.3mm (from 2.0mm to 2.3mm) and the strength increases by 32%. Ric Hjertberg says that it’s the equivalent of adding 10 spokes. That might be an overstatement but my own experience says that it’s at least the equivalent of going up to the next hub drilling. In other words, using the 2.3mm spokes on a 36 spoke wheel is at least the equivalent of going to a 40 spoke wheel.
I ride mountain bikes with 2.2” tires to road bikes with 23mm tires and other sizes in between. I’m not worried about breaking spokes because of the width of the tire. I build wheels based not on the strength of the rim, hub or, for that matter, tires. I build them based on the part of the wheel that does the work.
If you get a light weight rider riding a bike on smooth roads, spokes normally don't break. If you get the same bike, ridden by a heavy weight rider on rough tracks, it is likely that at some time spokes will break.
I am heavier than ideal. I sometimes ride on rough tracks. I have broken spokes in narrow wheels. I also have fat bikes with 4 inch tires. I am aware, every time I hit a bump, the back wheel hits the ground with almost the force of my entire body weight. I am amazed how much this bike has taken without breaking. I do believe, the big tires do spread the forces out more, reducing the likelihood of breaking spokes. No doubt, at some time in the future, even a fat bike will break.
On a fat bike, even when I hit a large bump. the tire compresses no more than 20%. If I ride a bike with skinny tires, and hit a bump, the tire can compress all the way. This definitely puts more forces on the wheel, and the spokes.
So heavy riders are better off with wider tires. They do not have to be fat bikes. Mountain bikes are ok for most people.
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#41
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Most inexpensive wheels are built by machines which get them kinda round and quit. A good wheel builder will tension the spokes properly, and stress relieve them. You can buy 3-4 spokes and do it yourself with a $15 spoke wrench. There are some decent web sites that describe how to do this work, or you can see if you library has a copy of Jobst Brandt's "The Bicycle Wheel."
#42
"Broke College Student"
Thread Starter
That Cliffhanger wheel is a good choice. It is setup for a presta valve, which is not a big deal. All of my bikes are presta, for me it is a much better setup.
If your pump can fill both, just use the presta side. You'll need to get a presta valve tube for the new wheel. You shouild also get a presta to schrader valve adapter ($2) to carry with you in case you want to add air at a gas station, or if your pump is only schrader. Personally, I would eventually replace all my tubes to ones with presta valves. You should get an adapter nut ($2) for the front wheel if you want to run a presta valve in your existing rim.
You will need a 4.5mm spacer ($5) to put on the freehub to run a 7 speed cassette and a Shimano lockring tool ($8). Sunrace is a good choice for a 7 speed cassette. Go to their site and look at the options. Cheapest way is to get one that has the same tooth large cog so you don't need to replace the chain because it is too short. After 250 miles there is no reason to replace it now.
You will probably need to adjust the derailleur limit screws and the indexing. When you get to that point, you can check out videos or ask back here.
John
If your pump can fill both, just use the presta side. You'll need to get a presta valve tube for the new wheel. You shouild also get a presta to schrader valve adapter ($2) to carry with you in case you want to add air at a gas station, or if your pump is only schrader. Personally, I would eventually replace all my tubes to ones with presta valves. You should get an adapter nut ($2) for the front wheel if you want to run a presta valve in your existing rim.
You will need a 4.5mm spacer ($5) to put on the freehub to run a 7 speed cassette and a Shimano lockring tool ($8). Sunrace is a good choice for a 7 speed cassette. Go to their site and look at the options. Cheapest way is to get one that has the same tooth large cog so you don't need to replace the chain because it is too short. After 250 miles there is no reason to replace it now.
You will probably need to adjust the derailleur limit screws and the indexing. When you get to that point, you can check out videos or ask back here.
John
As far as the gearing, would the previously linked Shimano CS-HG200 12-32t work best, or the Sunrase CSM40 11-34t? My current gear on there is a Shimano 14-34t.
So, right now, these are the things I'll need to purchase:
- Velocity Cliffhanger wheels
- The gear (Shimano CS-HG200 or Sunrace CSM40)
- 7-speed spacer
- Cassette lockring tool
- Tubes w/ presta stems (x2)
- Presta-to-Schrader adapter
- Presta valve spacer nut
Last edited by fullergarrett; 05-06-20 at 12:18 PM.
#43
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I think I'm going to go with the Cliffhanger wheel, which seems to be a pretty good deal. I didn't notice the Presta valve - but that's fine. I'll need to order the tubes online, but I also need to order a replacement tire. My local Wally World doesn't carry 26" presta tubes. As for my pump, I believe it has an adapter for presta valves that slots into the pump head. (However, I know my frame pump only works with Schrader valves.) And I'll just go ahead and get an adapter nut for the front rim to make them both work.
As far as the gearing, would the previously linked Shimano CS-HG200 12-32t work best, or the Sunrase CSM40 11-34t? My current gear on there is a Shimano 14-34t.
So, right now, these are the things I'll need to purchase:
As far as the gearing, would the previously linked Shimano CS-HG200 12-32t work best, or the Sunrase CSM40 11-34t? My current gear on there is a Shimano 14-34t.
So, right now, these are the things I'll need to purchase:
- Velocity Cliffhanger wheels
- The gear (Shimano CS-HG200 or Sunrace CSM40)
- 7-speed spacer
- Cassette lockring tool
- Tubes w/ presta stems (x2)
- Presta-to-Schrader adapter
- Presta valve spacer nut
also I know budget is an issue, but with the velomine option you get both front and rear wheels for $30 more than the rear only cliff hanger...which might help avoid long term issues and looks getter
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Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
#44
"Broke College Student"
Thread Starter
I think I'll just stick with the Cliffhanger wheels. I think I don't have to worry as much about the front wheel because it doesn't receive as much of the weight, and as previously mentioned I'm on a budget. My main concern really is eliminating the hub problem and finding something that is better suited to my heavier weight.
#45
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FYI... the Cliffhanger for $129 is just the rear wheel.
You can go with either cassette.
As for never having to worry about the wheel, it is a machine made wheel, but for your budget it is hopefully one that will last long enough without problems.
I’m not a wheel builder but I’ve built some. The truth is that you could not get a good wheel builder to build a wheel like that with all materials for $129. The hope is that the wheel is stout enough and the spokes all tensioned within a close range that it works well. I think it is a reasonable compromise between a $50 and a $200+ hand built wheel from a “good” builder not just anyone at a shop.
John
You can go with either cassette.
As for never having to worry about the wheel, it is a machine made wheel, but for your budget it is hopefully one that will last long enough without problems.
I’m not a wheel builder but I’ve built some. The truth is that you could not get a good wheel builder to build a wheel like that with all materials for $129. The hope is that the wheel is stout enough and the spokes all tensioned within a close range that it works well. I think it is a reasonable compromise between a $50 and a $200+ hand built wheel from a “good” builder not just anyone at a shop.
John
#46
"Broke College Student"
Thread Starter
FYI... the Cliffhanger for $129 is just the rear wheel.
You can go with either cassette.
As for never having to worry about the wheel, it is a machine made wheel, but for your budget it is hopefully one that will last long enough without problems.
I’m not a wheel builder but I’ve built some. The truth is that you could not get a good wheel builder to build a wheel like that with all materials for $129. The hope is that the wheel is stout enough and the spokes all tensioned within a close range that it works well. I think it is a reasonable compromise between a $50 and a $200+ hand built wheel from a “good” builder not just anyone at a shop.
John
You can go with either cassette.
As for never having to worry about the wheel, it is a machine made wheel, but for your budget it is hopefully one that will last long enough without problems.
I’m not a wheel builder but I’ve built some. The truth is that you could not get a good wheel builder to build a wheel like that with all materials for $129. The hope is that the wheel is stout enough and the spokes all tensioned within a close range that it works well. I think it is a reasonable compromise between a $50 and a $200+ hand built wheel from a “good” builder not just anyone at a shop.
John
If everything looks good, I'll go ahead and purchase them. Hopefully things go well. I've learned a little bit, but actually putting everything together and getting the bike up and rolling is going to be the actual challenge. But I'm up for it. :-)
Thanks everyone for the help. If I run into any issues when putting it all together I'll be sure to revive this thread or post a new one.
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#47
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In case it got missed up-thread, try to lift your butt out of the saddle for bumps and potholes. That's one of the cheaper ways to make your rear wheel last longer...
#48
"Broke College Student"
Thread Starter
I went ahead and ordered all of the parts. I went with the Sunrace 11-34t. These parts are not cheap, but I'm hoping they will hold up much better.
#49
Really Old Senior Member
IF it's already trued & tensioned properly, it'll be a quick job for the LBS to check and they may cut the price
Assuming the parts are correct & "serviceable", really cheap machine built wheels can be made considerably better.
It's always a good idea to make sure the bearings are well greased and adjusted properly. Many hubs have basically a thin layer of a cosmoline like lube sprayed on.
#50
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When you get the wheel, first it it in your frame to see how true it spins. If it looks good, go around the wheel and grab two spoke and squeeze them a little. All the spokes on the drive (cassette) side should feel about the same tension, as with the other side. If you feel a really odd one then you might want to have a shop check it. It things are not right, send it back.
This is an old school approach, but it is what I used on my first set in the early 90’s. I retired them a few weeks ago to finally go to a cassette.
John
Edit added: Bill Kapaun’s recommendation is a better way to go.
This is an old school approach, but it is what I used on my first set in the early 90’s. I retired them a few weeks ago to finally go to a cassette.
John
Edit added: Bill Kapaun’s recommendation is a better way to go.