New wheels seem to drag
06-25-20, 08:46 AM
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New wheels seem to drag
So I just switched from a 16 front / 20 rear spoke(bladed) Alex Equation Aero wheels to a used set of 28/28 spoke(non-bladed) hand built Velocity wheels with FRM FL-Pro Hubs.
Should I be able to notice a difference in drag between my old and new wheels as a result of additional weight and/or spoke design? I ask because it seems these new wheels aren't able to freewheel as far before I have to start pedaling again. Maybe I'm just being crazy too...
I thought it might have been a bad bearing at first but they all seem smooth when I take it all apart. The FRM hub design is certainly different than the traditional Campy freehub, with only 2 pawls positioned on the hub shell instead of 3 pawls on the freehub body. Anyone have any experience with FRM campy compatible hubs? Are they good quality or should I consider ditching them for something else?
Side note/question: I did have to have my cassette lock ring(Campy Centaur 12/25 10s) machined slightly when I first swapped the cassette to the new wheels because it apparently was clamping down on one of the bearings once I tightened it to recommended 50nM and made it so the axle would barely rotate at all. Anyone else ever had to do this when swapping campy cassettes between wheels?
It also seemed way too easy to over tighten the lock nut that holds the axle in the hub, as doing so, again created a situation where the axle wouldn't rotate smoothly until I backed it off... right now i'd estimate the lock nut(s) are slightly more than hand tight. Is this normal?
Should I be able to notice a difference in drag between my old and new wheels as a result of additional weight and/or spoke design? I ask because it seems these new wheels aren't able to freewheel as far before I have to start pedaling again. Maybe I'm just being crazy too...
I thought it might have been a bad bearing at first but they all seem smooth when I take it all apart. The FRM hub design is certainly different than the traditional Campy freehub, with only 2 pawls positioned on the hub shell instead of 3 pawls on the freehub body. Anyone have any experience with FRM campy compatible hubs? Are they good quality or should I consider ditching them for something else?
Side note/question: I did have to have my cassette lock ring(Campy Centaur 12/25 10s) machined slightly when I first swapped the cassette to the new wheels because it apparently was clamping down on one of the bearings once I tightened it to recommended 50nM and made it so the axle would barely rotate at all. Anyone else ever had to do this when swapping campy cassettes between wheels?
It also seemed way too easy to over tighten the lock nut that holds the axle in the hub, as doing so, again created a situation where the axle wouldn't rotate smoothly until I backed it off... right now i'd estimate the lock nut(s) are slightly more than hand tight. Is this normal?
06-25-20, 11:48 AM
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So I just switched from a 16 front / 20 rear spoke(bladed) Alex Equation Aero wheels to a used set of 28/28 spoke(non-bladed) hand built Velocity wheels with FRM FL-Pro Hubs.
Should I be able to notice a difference in drag between my old and new wheels as a result of additional weight and/or spoke design? I ask because it seems these new wheels aren't able to freewheel as far before I have to start pedaling again. Maybe I'm just being crazy too...
I thought it might have been a bad bearing at first but they all seem smooth when I take it all apart. The FRM hub design is certainly different than the traditional Campy freehub, with only 2 pawls positioned on the hub shell instead of 3 pawls on the freehub body. Anyone have any experience with FRM campy compatible hubs? Are they good quality or should I consider ditching them for something else?
Side note/question: I did have to have my cassette lock ring(Campy Centaur 12/25 10s) machined slightly when I first swapped the cassette to the new wheels because it apparently was clamping down on one of the bearings once I tightened it to recommended 50nM and made it so the axle would barely rotate at all. Anyone else ever had to do this when swapping campy cassettes between wheels?
It also seemed way too easy to over tighten the lock nut that holds the axle in the hub, as doing so, again created a situation where the axle wouldn't rotate smoothly until I backed it off... right now i'd estimate the lock nut(s) are slightly more than hand tight. Is this normal?
Should I be able to notice a difference in drag between my old and new wheels as a result of additional weight and/or spoke design? I ask because it seems these new wheels aren't able to freewheel as far before I have to start pedaling again. Maybe I'm just being crazy too...
I thought it might have been a bad bearing at first but they all seem smooth when I take it all apart. The FRM hub design is certainly different than the traditional Campy freehub, with only 2 pawls positioned on the hub shell instead of 3 pawls on the freehub body. Anyone have any experience with FRM campy compatible hubs? Are they good quality or should I consider ditching them for something else?
Side note/question: I did have to have my cassette lock ring(Campy Centaur 12/25 10s) machined slightly when I first swapped the cassette to the new wheels because it apparently was clamping down on one of the bearings once I tightened it to recommended 50nM and made it so the axle would barely rotate at all. Anyone else ever had to do this when swapping campy cassettes between wheels?
It also seemed way too easy to over tighten the lock nut that holds the axle in the hub, as doing so, again created a situation where the axle wouldn't rotate smoothly until I backed it off... right now i'd estimate the lock nut(s) are slightly more than hand tight. Is this normal?
I have never heard of having to machine a lock ring like you describe..... it really does not sound normal. It sounds like there is an incompatibility somewhere
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(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
06-25-20, 02:08 PM
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by lock nut, do you mean the quick release clamp lever? that rule of thumb for that you should see a pressure mark on your palm after closing it so it sounds like you are not tight enogh
I have never heard of having to machine a lock ring like you describe..... it really does not sound normal. It sounds like there is an incompatibility somewhere
I have never heard of having to machine a lock ring like you describe..... it really does not sound normal. It sounds like there is an incompatibility somewhere
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freehub#/media/File:Labeled_Bicycle_Hub_Comparison-en.svg
06-26-20, 09:25 AM
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Is it a cup and cone type hub?
If it is I would suggest the cones and locknut's are not secure.
Securing the wheel to the frame should have none or very little efect on the wheel bearing. Because if it does it means stuff can move.
And you don't want your wheel to move.
If it is I would suggest the cones and locknut's are not secure.
Securing the wheel to the frame should have none or very little efect on the wheel bearing. Because if it does it means stuff can move.
And you don't want your wheel to move.
06-26-20, 09:47 AM
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FRM hubs have cartridge bearings. I got some Fulcrum wheels for my wife a few years and have not had to replace the bearings, so I can’t offer much.
the lock nut/end cap should not just be hand tight. My only thought is the bearing was not seated properly so when you tighten things down the pre-load is too great and causes the bearing to bind.
John
the lock nut/end cap should not just be hand tight. My only thought is the bearing was not seated properly so when you tighten things down the pre-load is too great and causes the bearing to bind.
John
06-26-20, 11:32 AM
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Is it a cup and cone type hub?
If it is I would suggest the cones and locknut's are not secure.
Securing the wheel to the frame should have none or very little efect on the wheel bearing. Because if it does it means stuff can move.
And you don't want your wheel to move.
If it is I would suggest the cones and locknut's are not secure.
Securing the wheel to the frame should have none or very little efect on the wheel bearing. Because if it does it means stuff can move.
And you don't want your wheel to move.
Since no one has mentioned it I'm guessing there's a consensus that this isn't/couldn't be caused by additional wheel weight / spoke aerodynamics...
I mean maybe this FRM hub and its bearings are lower quality than my Alex Equation hub and is therefore slower? No idea though because I can't find ANYTHING on the interwebs regarding Alex Equation hubs.
I just ordered all new DT Swiss Aero Comp spokes with DT Squorx Alloy nipples to rebuild my Alex wheels. So in the coming weeks I'll do side by side tests to see if one wheel is better than the other and maybe take the new wheels into a local shop for hub maintenance and see if that helps.
Last edited by andstein; 06-26-20 at 11:40 AM.
06-26-20, 11:45 AM
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Blamester
No, as 70sSanO said, it uses cartridge bearings.
Since no one has mentioned it I'm guessing there's a consensus that this isn't/couldn't be caused by additional wheel weight / spoke aerodynamics...
I mean maybe this FRM hub and its bearings are lower quality than my Alex Equation hub and is therefore slower? No idea though because I can't find ANYTHING on the interwebs regarding Alex Equation hubs.
Since no one has mentioned it I'm guessing there's a consensus that this isn't/couldn't be caused by additional wheel weight / spoke aerodynamics...
I mean maybe this FRM hub and its bearings are lower quality than my Alex Equation hub and is therefore slower? No idea though because I can't find ANYTHING on the interwebs regarding Alex Equation hubs.
Because when the wheel is secured in the dropout correctly it should not affect the bearing.
06-26-20, 12:17 PM
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Is this only happening on the rear hub?
If the front hub is fine, remove one, or both, of the lock nuts/end caps and see it there is a spacer or shim that is missing from the rear.
If you are missing a spacer or shim and that causes pressure on the inner bearing race that pressure will cause the bearing to bind. You can’t support the outer race and push the inner race without it binding.
I’ve used bottom brackets with replaceable cartridge bearings, but they have an outer lock rings that work like jam nuts.
It just seems to me that the solution is not spokes, but the cartridge bearing being twisted or pushed to the point of binding.
John
If the front hub is fine, remove one, or both, of the lock nuts/end caps and see it there is a spacer or shim that is missing from the rear.
If you are missing a spacer or shim and that causes pressure on the inner bearing race that pressure will cause the bearing to bind. You can’t support the outer race and push the inner race without it binding.
I’ve used bottom brackets with replaceable cartridge bearings, but they have an outer lock rings that work like jam nuts.
It just seems to me that the solution is not spokes, but the cartridge bearing being twisted or pushed to the point of binding.
John
