WGB 

I tried this on the Triathlon forum but got zero responses.


I'm into road bikes, specifically the C&V side of the house. Never been into tri and have no real idea about these bikes. I saw an ad for a road bike with Shimano 105 (but missing brake and levers and seat). Poor photos but close to home so went and saw it. When I got there saw smaller wheels and learned it was "650". I assumed 650b and thought, great can add wider tires, but no, it's 650c which of course it a totally different thing all together.


I built it back up by adding a temp seat and pedals and rode it on my street (no brakes so very short ride) and yes, I know bars aren't set up right. Sorry to say it doesn't work for me even though it seems a well built bike, so will pass on the frame and wheelset, (rimset is mismatched) either with or without components. I know they still make 650c tubes and tires but there are lot of things made for specialty markets.


My questions


I've never seen a Superform before (No listings for sale anywhere that I can find). Does anyone know about these bikes, were they junk??

Saw reference that early Quintana Roo bike frames were made by Rob Stowe, can anyone confirm if the Superforms were made by Rob Stowe?

I see very limited 650c bikes at all so wondering are 650c wheels/650c bikes generally obsolete?






Note to moderators. Tried t delete original thread on triathlon forum bu that is no longer an option

rosefarts

I had a Felt B2 around the turn of the century. 650c and a 58t large ring. Definitely fast. Any faster than another aero bike on 700? Probably not.

The fastest splits I ever pulled off in a tri were on a regular road bike with a disc wheel and clip ons.

Anyway, the theory was that they're more aero being closer to the ground. Or something.

I think the only place it still exists is with short women's bikes.

WGB 

@rosefarts - I was told that the 650c gave faster acceleration of a start but that the 700c was faster over distances but given the length of tri races I couldn't see the point of 650c.

rosefarts

That's the "or something".

I had a great aluminum bike with Ultegra then. I was just as fast with clip ons and the Falcon disc I already had, I didn't need that second bike.

xiaoman1 

WGB,
650c front wheels are sought after by TT and pursuit riders, you can still find tires either tubular or clinchers but they are expensive. They have a limited audience and hoops can still be purchased and built up.
Normally Quintana Roos were the rage in the late 80's-90's but people that do Tri's are more into carbon now.
I can't offer an evaluation other than to say prices are low especially since it is an earlier model...large size might be a negative as well for some as are the mismatched wheels.
Ben

T-Mar

The Superform was arguably the world's first purpose built triathlon model. Prior to it, all the so called "triathlon " models were just repurposed mid-range sports bicycles. The big innovation of the Superfrom was the steep seat tube angle, which was around 80 degrees, depending on the frame size. Basically, this rotated the body forward about the pedal spindle. This rotation lowered the torso, to achieve a more aerodynamic position and allow the use of aero bars without constricting the critical angle between the torso and thigh, which happened with a conventional seat tube angle. The design did comprise the bio-mechanical efficiency a bit but was more than offset by the increased aerodynamic efficiency and it also decreased the adaptation period for the legs at the beginning of the run segment.

650C were originally used on the Superform to allow a shorter top top to accommodate women, who made up a very large segment of competitive triathletes. However, they are also lighter and more areodynamic. The main cause of aerodynamic drag are the spokes. On 650C wheels the spokes are shorter and the smaller wheel is stronger, allowing the wheel to built with less spokes.

It's my understanding the the early Superforms were built by Tom Teasdale.

SpeedofLite 

The story of Quintana Roo Superform is contained in this article by Dan Empfield, the founder of Quintana Roo.

https://www.slowtwitch.com/Features/...rform_274.html

Empfield is also the founder of the Slowtwitch website where this article appears.

xiaoman1 

The expert has spoken...

randyjawa 

A few years ago, I stumbled on a Quintanna Roo. It sported a Shimano 600 eight speed group. The bike was in pretty good running condition but was beginning to show cosmetic deterioration. I tend to look first at the head tube, hoping to estimate the size of the bike. Based on that, this Roo was wayyyyy to big for me...


Then, the next thing to raise alarm bells was the 55 tooth big sprocket. Forgetaboutit! I am not that strong anymore...


However, as it turned out, the Roo was not to big at all. The bike was, fitted with a set of 650a wheels...


Anyway, I gave the bike a going through, in preparation for the test ride(s) and, wow - the Quintanna Roo was/is a rocket! The handling is quick. The acceleration, even for me, was very good. The bike, compared to my steel steeds, was quite light, coming in under the 20 pound mark. All in all, a worthy and unusual steed that is project number three on my present list of bikes to build.

My Quintanna Roo has come back to me three times (long family involved story) and I have finally decided to restore it, paint art and all. Why paint the bike (generally I loathe the idea of repainting a vintage road bike. But this pooch needs new fur...




For my money, my Quintanna Roo is a well made road racing bicycle, sporting decent frame design and very good component choices. The bike is a treat, a different kind of treat, to ride.

I don't know about Stowe.

The wheels, tires and tubes can be a pain, but any can be sourced through Amazon.

Narhay

I had a Scott Waimea triathlon bike with 650c wheels. You can get continental GP4000II tires in that size but otherwise it was difficult to source and the source I found was out of stock. I never ended up building it because I didnt want to get sucked into a bike with a specialty tire size that may disappear in the future or be left with sub-par choices. Plus, the dimensions looked a bit wonky to me.

WGB 

Thank you all for the assistance.
I admit I'd never even heard of Teasdale before so that's interesting. I agreed it's a well made bike, but just didn't like the ride. If I kept it the appropriate choice would be 105 levers and brakes but, As Narhay said above (he) "didn't want to get sucked into a bike with a specialty tire size that may disappear in the future or be left with sub-par choices" and building it up with no intention of riding seems a waste.
Guess I'll pull the shifters and derailleurs for my Fuji and keep the wheel set with the bike and maybe someone will want it one day.

eeuuugh

I've got one of these frames, with the same periwinkle/royal blue splatter paint job. My impression is these frames are from the first run of Superforms described in the article. I got it used, set up with 26" (ISO 559) wheels. Ritchey Tom Slick tires, 26"x25mm, just barely cleared the frame. You may have to use 20mm tires on 650c rims.

I found the bike incredibly quick. It felt like it 'planed'. I hated the skinny tires though. I tried a few different seat and cockpit setups and eventually took it apart, with the idea of someday crimping the chainstays and trying to fit a 26x1-1/8" tire... That was four years ago.

WGB 

I approached ye locale frame builder and asked him about altering the frame and he laughed and suggested not worth the effort.
I suspect it'll sit there until the border reopens and maybe then I'll offer it on the sales thread incase someone seeks this beast....

T-Mar

You'll need to target duathletes and triathletes. It might be a hard sell this year, as the market is likely saturated with tri-gear due to event cancellations and multisport athletes with cash flow issues. Tri-Sport Canada used to have a classified page. So did Tri-Rudy, though the latter catered more to the Ottawa area. There used to be a multisport specialty shop in Toronto called Endurosport and they used to have swap meets at the beginning and end of the season. Not sure if any of these are still active but it offers some possibilities for Canadian sales.

WGB 

Tom

Thanks for those sites as had never heard of them. Might try listing F&F there with wheel set. Tempted to move the shifters and derailleurs to my League Fuji in lieu of the current friction set up, kind of as a reward for its good service...

jollyroger88

The reason for smaller wheels was to match the steep seat tube with stiff (and thus somewhat short) rear stays; later models had a "wishbone" there, to add further stiffness. The fork angle is slacker instead, for increased front end stability. Superforms were designed to be ridden in the aerobars (almost) all the time; drops have to be used only for climbing and cornering. Obviously this bike is a nightmare for "criterium style" rides. I love superforms and really wish I had one!

WGB 

@jollyroger88
i sold mine to a young man who "needed a bike".

Within two hours it was listed for sale for $150 more than I'd asked. I can't whine as it just wasn't right for me.

r0ckh0und 

I picked one of these up at a swap meet several years ago for $10............650c frame only. It was 54cm Tange Infinity tubing. Liz Downing signature frame. Probably posted it on BF at some point and time. Being steel, I always assumed it was very early version of QR

jollyroger88

Steel QR's were produced from 1987 to 1995 or 1996. Early years models had 126mm rear hub spacing; later versions had internal routing for the brake cable. Nice frame, worth building into a bike

RobbieTunes

I built one of those 650c models out of spare parts, etc. The lady that has it loves it. Still.

jollyroger88

hopefully now it's someone else's happiness!

jollyroger88

650c frames fit perfectly many ladies indeed!