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Balloon tire Columbia pulls hard to right?

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Balloon tire Columbia pulls hard to right?

Old 07-09-20, 09:25 AM
  #26  
Iride01 
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO
Is it possible that there is a detent in the headset that makes it tough, impossible, to keep the bike from riding straight.

John
Don't know that I've ever seen an intentional detent in a headset. But that sort of made me wonder if a bearing is missing in the headset. Or just not tightened properly.
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Old 07-10-20, 09:59 PM
  #27  
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I played around a bit with trying to see what could make this thing pull so hard, what I know so far:
  • Its not the tires or wheels, these wheels work fine on another bike, and another bike's wheels still pull to the right on this bike.
  • The frame is not bent, I can check the frame across the head tube and seat tube to measure the rear triangle, both dropouts are within .013" of each other. better than the bike that doesn't pull.
  • The fork is not bent, I have a Park fork alignment jig, the blades are 100% equal front to back and perfectly aligned. I also tried moving the blades to the right, a move that most say should correct the pull to the right but it made no difference at all.
  • The headset is not worn, not dimpled or pitted. I rotated the cups, cleaned and repacked all the bearings replacing all the balls to be safe. Plus, I swapped the cups with another bike that don't have any issues.
  • The headtube and seat tube are parallel, looking across the headtube, it is level with the seat tube.
  • There is a very slight improvement in reducing the tightness of the headset, (leaving a bit of play in the headset). With the bearings tight, the fork still rotates perfectly fine 360 degrees, so I don't get the impression there's any bind in the fork.

In an effort to understand what could make it pull, I intentionally set the rear wheel off center in the other bike, it made no real difference in how it rode. It didn't make it pull.
That frame is obviously bent, the frame on the bike that pulls checks out just fine.
I do notice that when I'm on this bike I feel like I'm looking down the right side of the bike for some reason, regardless of which side of the road or road crown I'm riding on. The bike struggles to make left turns, even if I lean the bike into the left turn, its still pulling right, when the bike is leaning left, the bars still want to turn right. It will lean and turn right fine, with the pull helping it turn. If I pick the bike up by the top tube, the front wheel stays straight, there's no flop to one side or the other.On the center kickstand, the front wheel will not sit straight, it flops all the way right and won't stay to the left. On the side stand, it sits normal. It feels like the front wheel always wants to turn 90 degrees to the right when riding.
The tires are not in the best of shape, they're 70+ years old but they hold air and serve the purpose. Like I said before, swapping in another set of wheels and tires off my other bike doesn't change the pull.
I realize I'm too big for the bike, but I'm too big for nearly all bikes. If an old balloon tire bike can't take a big man, what can?
This isn't about my size, its about getting this bike sorted so I can at least ride it around the block once in a while. It was my father's bike, he had it as a teen and kept it all these years and handed it down to me. When the time comes for me to pass it on, I'd like it to be a ridable bike.
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Old 07-11-20, 12:03 AM
  #28  
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So with the headset with a little more play it slightly improved.

Did anyone talk about the dropouts no being parallel. Although I think it would be noticeable.

Have you thought of trying to get it to pull to the left? I know it sounds like two wrongs...

But if you could skew the front, or rear, wheel slightly it would be interesting to see how it rides.

John
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Old 07-11-20, 02:58 PM
  #29  
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I've measured the rear dropouts two ways, first with the frame gauge across the head and seat tube, and with a string from the headtube and from the top of the seat tube.
With just a plain axle installed in the rear dropouts, the left rear end of the axle is about 1/16" higher, but that amount is adjustable when tightening the wheel. The wheel is perfectly dished and can be adjusted to be perfectly centered in the back triangle with no issues.

Something I did was to mess with the other bike I have here, trying to see what would cause a pull. That bike is all sorts of out of shape but it rides fine. I tried tightening the rear wheel canted to one side in the frame, it didn't cause a pull, I tried leaning the fork blades over to one side nearly a 1/2", it still did not create a pull. It just changed the point of balance.
No wheel, frame or fork change has really done much to fix the pull on the Columbia.
Loosening the headset slightly lessens the pull, but by far doesn't eliminate it, I just can feel a change. As a guess, the force needed to keep the bars straight might go from 20lbs to maybe 15lbs with the headset left a bit loose. The harder or farther you turn to the left, the harder it gets, the amount of force steering it to the right increases the farther you turn it. (There is no force with the bike sitting still with no one on it, but with me sitting on the bike the bike does turn a bit harder to the left then to the right.

I don't have a facing tool for the headset but what I did do was to clamp two parallel bars across the headtube and measure them at each end and the difference is less than .001" at 6" away from the head tube in any direction. Bicycles aren't that precise either, I'd be happy with as much as .020" and wouldn't expect any issues. I've had frames that needed to be refaced, the result of leaving it alone is usually just a worn or binding headset, not a pull. The two things I'd expect to cause a pull would be a rear triangle bent to one side, (as if the bike got hit hard around the crank area), or a headtube that leaned to the right and was tilted rearward more than normal.

I don't think the rear end of the bike can really be causing what's going on. A miss aligned rear wheel will only make the bike dog track, not pull like the handle bars have a garage door spring pulling on them. Since its weight related, I think its caster related, much like how a car will pull to one side if the caster is off center or how hard a set of casters are to push if one is bent sideways. I'm just not sure what angle is off here. Nothing I measure seems to show me anything wrong. Especially for as hard as it pulls to the right.
In comparison, I have the Monark, which when I found it had been side swiped in the front, the forks were bent to the left about 3" and the wheel folded in half. It came to me with an old Hiawatha ladies bike with two usable wheels. The Monark was hit so hard that it bent the headtube sideways as well. The headtube leans to the right about 1/4", I straightened the forks on the Park jig and hung a used wheel on it. Its been my beater ever since. I can take my hands off the bars for miles on that bike, it don't pull or do anything to indicate how bent up it really is. Its rear wheel barely clears the right upper stay, yet is pretty much centered in the chainstays. Its got two drop center prewar wheels on it, both came from the Hiawatha ladies bike. A few years ago the left chainstay came loose of the bottom bracket on the Monark, I simply brazed it back together. The BB cups had blown out, so I used two Wald cups having to tack them in place with some brazing rod. All of this and the bike rides straight as an arrow.

The Columbia, which looks good, and likely hasn't had any serious damage has issues.

In all my years around bikes I've never had a bike pull, I've had a few that turned easier one way than the other, but not a muscle straining pull to the side. I've had frames so out of shape I strapped them to the tree outback and used a 2x4 to bend them back into shape and they rode fine. My 1973 Schwinn Varsity was so twisted it would almost self balance on two wheels. the head tube and seat tube were almost 1/2" out of parallel. The bike rode dead straight just fine, but turning to the right took all your strength to fight the caster effect of the headtube lean. I bent it back 25 years ago and its been aces ever since. I had my suspicions that the Varsity was built that far out of alignment and it was so clean because no one could stand to ride it that way for very long. There were no marked anywhere on that bike to say it was hit or crashed, and for a much force as it took to bend it straight, I highly doubt it got 'hit' or crashed.
I made 6ft steel rods that fit into the headtube and seat tube of a bike that both let me see in a hurry if the frame is out of alignment and it gives pretty amazing leverage to bend them back. I've also got a giant vise on my work plate steel work bench that's anchored to the floor. Getting leverage to bend something isn't a problem. I also cut an iron plug on the lathe that I use in the BB shell to protect it from getting out of round. I worked as a machinist and welder for 35 years, so working with metal is second nature.
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