JMak00

My wonderful Portland needs a new wheel set. I know brakes and drivetrains, but not wheels and need some help.

I ride my Portland in Portland currently on the stock wheels. But over the last couple years, I've been having to replace spokes on the rear wheel and get the rear wheel trued over and over. LBS says replace the rear wheel and so I want to do both front and rear.

I'm 5'9" and 155# using the Portland primarily for everyday bike commuting about 12-15 miles each way per day. Portland's roads are, I imagine, much like roads in Seattle and slightly better than my former hometown in Detroit's suburbs. I ride only on paved roads and carry about another 10-12 lbs of gear when riding, though, would like be able to carry up to about 25 lbs of total additional weight.

I'm not necessarily bound to Bontrager since I won't be going with the paired spoke design so I'm going to lose the stock look.

It's hard finding a wheel on the 700x28 size with a 130mm hub for use with disc brakes. I'm using the stock Avid BB7 six-bolt disc rotor and, if needed, will change to a center bolt rotor. Also, the bike has a newer 105 drivetrain on it.

I've talked to the LBS that pushed me toward the Bontrager SSR's, but $400 or more is not what I can spend. Velocity thoguht they had wheels for me, but then recalled I had disc brakes and said nope, though they did say if I sent them a hub, they'd build me a wheel around it, though they didn't give a ballpark price on that. Universal cycles recommended Shimano RX010's for me and they are asking $198 for a set...that sounds more reasonable, but I don't know.

Any suggestions, other considerations I should have, or tips wold be most appreciated! TIA...

blakcloud

The 130 disk hub is rare to say the least. Very few made this hub and they are difficult to find today. My suggestion is to rebuild on your rear hub if it is salvageable and buy something new for the front.

The RX010's won't work because they aren't 130's but 135's.

There is a member on here, TSL, who owns that bike and he replaced his original wheelset with a pairing from Velocity when they made that hub. He was selling his original set and don't know if he ever sold them. Bruce hasn't posted in over a year but you could try contacting him and see if he sold his wheels. Not exactly what you want but your choices are limited.

White Industries also made hubs in that dimension but I could never find one for my own Trek Portland when I owned it. Also it was a pricey hub more than you will probably want to spend if you could find it.

Your last choice of buying the Bontrager SSR might be a consideration. Purchase one wheel at a time or as you can afford them. Good luck.

noglider 

Rear wheels wear out and die much faster than front wheels. You probably have no need to replace the front, so don't waste your money.

Clearly your spokes on the rear wheel are fatigued, but what is the condition of the rim? If the hub is in good shape, and if 130mm hubs with disc brakes are hard to find, you can keep the hub, and rebuild the wheel. Or have the bike shop rebuild it. Overhaul the hub bearings while you're at it. I've done this a few times, and it has paid off for me. If you're interested in doing it yourself, we can walk you through it. We've done it for lots of folks here on BF.

JMak00

Thanks, guys...definitely not what I want to hear, but it is what it is.

Velocity indicated that they no longer have a solution for this, but did suggest sending them a hub to work with. I think I'll call them back to get a price estimate.

Too many folks are telling me to ditch the paired spoke arrangement for me to keep the rim, although, can I use the rim but buy something else that allows for a higher number of spokes to be used?

noglider 

The number of spokes in your wheel must be equal to the number of holes in your rim which also must be equal to the number of holes in your hub. Chances are, your rear wheel has 32 spokes, and that number is fine. If you replaced the spokes with high quality spokes and built it well (or had it built well), chances are, the wheel would last several years with no spoke breakage. The most common cause of spoke breakage, by far, is fatigue. The most common cause of spoke fatigue is poor build quality. Once spokes start breaking, they continue to do so because of fatigue. Replacing them one by one doesn't fix the problem. Replacing them all at once does. What condition is the rim in? What condition is the hub in? Generally, it's less expensive to replace a wheel than to build one, but with your hub being rare, rebuilding might be the best plan.

JMak00

It's the stock rim that came with the paired spoke design...I'll have to go count spokes tonight. Thanks, again, for the advice.

noglider 

You answered a question I didn't ask, and you didn't answer the two questions I did ask.

fietsbob

I would not keep the attachment to the 'Stock Look', but that's just my practical side.

36 spoke rear Modify the axle length, 135 to 130, 3 cross.. 32 hole front, still 3 cross for the disc brakes..

But I can build DIY Wheels, Shimano Steel axle cassette hubs can be altered from stock.



But Then , I've never seen a Trek Portland, they did not make many, so were sold out
well before the summer they were released.

they have a Weird Hub and Rim?

DiabloScott

Unless the hub or rim is really bad, I'd just relace the rear with all new spokes. Cheap, fast, and easy.

RubeRad

I agree, I think noglider offers the best solution: first make sure the hub and rim are ok, then pay a shop to rebuild the wheel with new spokes. Should cost I'd guesstimate not more than $100.

BF members can recommend their favorite wheelbuilders in Portland, there's gotta be a lot of great options. They should be able to build the wheel with a stronger lacing pattern (can't go wrong with 3x), high-quality butted-spokes, and make sure the dish and tension etc are all up to snuff for a strong, trouble-free wheel.

You don't weigh much, so you're not putting all that much load on the wheel (unless you ride like a gorilla, slamming through potholes all the time), and it seems you're dealing with a 32-spoke wheel, it should be possible to build it strongly so it will serve you very well for a long time.

(I'm 250 pounds, and my handbuilt 32-spoke rear wheel spins perfectly true, never given me a lick of trouble for about 4 years/10K miles, and counting...)

blakcloud

These are 24 spoke hubs so it limits what ever rim he can purchase. This is not a your run-of-the-mill design when it comes to wheels. Even if his hub can be overhauled he still needs to find a 24 hole rim and most likely it will be for a paired spoke design. These wheels were not Trek's finest moment. Everything he does is coming to be compromise somewhere. This is one of the reason I sold mine, the wheels were going to be the albatross of that bike.

RubeRad

So you're saying paired-spoke design = not equal spacing all the way around?

Where's @tsl? He commutes on a Portland and might have advice/experience -- I don't remember if his is as old as 2007 though...

OP, that $198 for a set is sounding better (especially if you drop that to maybe $120 for just a rear as noglider suggested). I would pay an additional $20-40 for a local wheelbuilder to go over it and make sure it's tensioned as well as possible.

tsl

@RubeRad

Here he is! I pop in when summoned.

Mine's the 2006 Portland, same frame (and color) as the 2007.

No, I dumped those old wheels a long time ago.

Yes, I had a new set built using the Velocity Road Disc hub back when they made it in 130mm. Nice effing hub.

Whatever you do, ditch the paired spokes. As @blakcloud mentioned above, those wheels were not Trek's finest moment. Which is putting it gently.

I've been meaning to experiment with a 135 hub, but until recently didn't have a 135 wheel to try. I have to take the tire off that wheel because it's a 27.5" x 2.2" MTB tire, so I haven't gotten around to messing with it yet.

What has me thinking about it is that there's quite a bit of slack between my hub and dropout when I put the wheel in. As I tighten the skewer (I use bolt-ons), I can watch the rear triangle squeeze up. Makes me wonder if it would also spread a little. I'd need only one mm per side or two mms, not the whole five. And with the Portland's long chainstays, chainline shouldn't be a problem. Might have to tweak the rear RD a hair. Maybe.

You may recall that when Surly came out with the CrossCheck, they made a big noise about how the rear end was 132.5 and would fit either 130 or 135. I've measured my Portland at 133mm. I'm thinking the same thing would work.

It's something that's worth a try if you have a local wheelbuilder or LBS is up for an experiment, or you have an MTB wheel kicking around or can borrow one.

The Portland is a fine ride that should not have to be parked for a stinking 2.5 mm per side.

For those who know me and are reading between the lines, yes, I bought an MTB.

Back in February, for a friend moving here, I picked up a second-hand 2016 Giant Talon 4, 27.5", hydro disc brakes. Had to ride it home in the snow from where I got it. He wasn't scheduled to move here for a while, so I used it to commute for most of March, including that big newsmaking 28" snowstorm we had.

Turns out, I liked it in the snow. A lot. So I bought an NOS one exactly like it. That'll become my new winter commuter and my beloved Portland won't have to wear its concrete overshoes (read: Nokian studded snow tires) any more. Although it will still get winter service on road tire days.

My Talon's kitted out a little differently than my friend's. He wanted the off-road look, I like full fenders. And I went with narrower "urban" bars and dynamo lighting system, where he kept the wide bars and is using one of my old MagicShine systems. I picked up a pre-built 650b dynamo wheel at bike-24.de for about $60. 27.5 is the same as 650b. Works a charm and for the under 500 miles a year I expect to put on it, it's wasn't worth a custom wheel.

Anyway, back to the OP, see if a 135 will fit. I really thing so. I just haven’t gotten around to trying it myself.

RubeRad

As I hoped, very experienced advice!

tsl, if your dropouts are really 133, then it seems 135 would fit even better than 130, stretching only 1mm per size vs squeezing 1.5mm per side.

OP, how far apart are your rear dropouts? Or if you don't have calipers, does the quick release push the dropouts inwards, or are they already pretty snug to the axle nuts?

Does the Portland have a steel frame (or at least rear triangle)?

JMak00

Haha, you're right...sorry.

I'm not sure I can even evaluate the rim and hub condition. The rim has no obvious signs of cracking. Wear and tear for sure. The hub is clean and shiny and was serviced about 18 months ago with no feedback from the LBS that it was in bad condition.

Oh, there's also only sufficient holes for 12 pairs of spokes.

JMak00

Thank you for the advice.

JMak00

I'll give the LBS a shout and see what they think. Fairly conservative bunch of guys, but I bet one of them has an imagination.

I've read many of your posts around here, specifically, those dealing with these wheels. My first call was to Velocity, but, they no longer have a solution other than to build up from a new hub.

Thanks for the thoughts on going to a 135. Though, if I recall correctly, didn't you suggest to another forum member not to bend or force open the rear stays? Something "cold" bending or some such? Isn't that what we'd do to fit a 135 in there?

JMak00

I'll check that out this weekend, but my memory says I have seen them be squeezed inward as I tighten the skewer...

Portland is not a steel frame...aluminum, I think.

CliffordK

Aluminum frame.

I thought there were quite a few 130mm disc Cross bikes. Perhaps those were rim brake bikes.

Here is the Bontrager SSR Disc Road Rear Wheel in 130 or 135mm, but only 24 spokes.

Will converting a 135mm hub to 130mm put the disc in the wrong place?

These Formula hubs are listed as 130mm, with either 32 or 36 spokes.
Formula Rear Disc QR cassette sealed 130mm Hub 32H Black / 36H silver

Darth Lefty 

I don't think you'd have any major worry about the frame, wedging a 135mm hub in, but I wonder if there are some subtleties you might not encounter wedging a 130mm into an 126mm 80's Cannondale.

First, is the disk the same distance in from the dropout on both hubs? That is, is the disk going to line up with the caliper? I think it is. You can answer this one just by trying it.

Second, the chainline of the 135 hub is 2.5mm further out. They're doing it on the 11 speed double disk bikes but those use narrower chains on rings that are further apart. Without that the chain might grab on the next bigger ring when in the middle/small combination. But it probably won't, because it's a triple, so the next ring is probably not enough bigger to get in the way. You might also have to adjust your front shifter indexing and FD upper limit due to the wider angle caused by the wider rear.

JMak00

The Bontrager is just too expensive for me...well, I'd have to spend a few months saving. And if I go up to over $400 for a wheel set on an 11 year old bike, shouldn't I just go the extra to get hand built set?

blakcloud

I would buy the Formula Hub that CliffordK posted. Formula make great hubs, it is the size you want and even if you didn't use it immediately, you have a back up. For $30 you can't go wrong.

tsl

Who knows? With nearly 7,000 posts in 12 years, I can't remember everything.

Although it sounds like something a "steel is real" fan would have said TO me.

tsl

Yes, I forgot about the other side. Simple matter of realigning the caliper.

JMak00

Never heard of Formula before. Where in the spectrum would their product fall relative to quality and durability? Any thoughts?