How do I get from 15mph avg to ~19mph?
04-27-12, 09:30 PM
#126
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1. Get a bigger motor
2. Get more aero
Other factors are likely second order, but important for pros.
Wind resistance increases as the square of "airspeed" so wind resistance at 19 mph is 60% greater than at 15mph. the really bad news is that required power (Power = Force x Velocity) increases as the cube of velocity (zero wind, flat). So ignoring second order effects and assuming you're already aero, you'll have to bump up your power by a factor of 2.
There is some good news. If your average is over a hilly course your average is being greatly affected by your climbing speed. Climbing occurs at a lower speed and the Power required approaches a linear function of velocity.
2. Get more aero
Other factors are likely second order, but important for pros.
Wind resistance increases as the square of "airspeed" so wind resistance at 19 mph is 60% greater than at 15mph. the really bad news is that required power (Power = Force x Velocity) increases as the cube of velocity (zero wind, flat). So ignoring second order effects and assuming you're already aero, you'll have to bump up your power by a factor of 2.
There is some good news. If your average is over a hilly course your average is being greatly affected by your climbing speed. Climbing occurs at a lower speed and the Power required approaches a linear function of velocity.
04-28-12, 07:50 AM
#128
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Yesterday I rode 7 miles as a warm up to a local cemetery that is flat and wide open. It was clear, 48 degrees with 15 mph winds. I have a .8 mile 6 turn circuit that I ride, which simulates crit race courses, that also has a sweeping curve that is the same as a straight. Yesterday I kept my HR in mid-Z3 for the 1 hr interval workout and concentrated on being low into the wind and smooth into and out of the turns. My wife drove our car over to the site with her bike in the car and then at rode her pace during my interval. It was probably coincidence, but I was riding two laps for her one. We always seemed pass around the same spot then as the hour interval progressed she started to pick up about 30-40 meters on my pace when we passed. During my interval I did have to ramp it back in order to keep my HR within the Z3 range. I tend to get into a race mode and attack too much. In review of my power files I averaged 20.7 mph and 254 watts on the interval with an average HR of 146 bpm. During my cool down I rode with my wife at her 10.4 mph pace and isolating the segment from the workout found that it took me 53 watts to ride with her at 10.3 mph. Last night for me it took around 5 times more power to ride twice as fast as her pace. BTW, my wife had fun since it was on a closed course, she didn't mess up her hair with a helmet, and she said she got a good cardio workout.
04-28-12, 08:32 AM
#129
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04-28-12, 08:53 AM
#131
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1. Get a bigger motor
2. Get more aero
Other factors are likely second order, but important for pros.
Wind resistance increases as the square of "airspeed" so wind resistance at 19 mph is 60% greater than at 15mph. the really bad news is that required power (Power = Force x Velocity) increases as the cube of velocity (zero wind, flat). So ignoring second order effects and assuming you're already aero, you'll have to bump up your power by a factor of 2.
There is some good news. If your average is over a hilly course your average is being greatly affected by your climbing speed. Climbing occurs at a lower speed and the Power required approaches a linear function of velocity.
2. Get more aero
Other factors are likely second order, but important for pros.
Wind resistance increases as the square of "airspeed" so wind resistance at 19 mph is 60% greater than at 15mph. the really bad news is that required power (Power = Force x Velocity) increases as the cube of velocity (zero wind, flat). So ignoring second order effects and assuming you're already aero, you'll have to bump up your power by a factor of 2.
There is some good news. If your average is over a hilly course your average is being greatly affected by your climbing speed. Climbing occurs at a lower speed and the Power required approaches a linear function of velocity.
I am not so sure about the good news vis a vis hills on the course. Even though at lower speeds aerodynamics is not as great a factor, hills are a time killer and that is especially true for bigger riders. And due to the reasons you say state about moving a volume of air out of the way at higher speeds, it is difficult to regain the lost time on the downhill. As I posted earlier, the best energy management it to use more power on the hills and less on the downhills. z4/z5 on the climb and z3 on the descent.
04-28-12, 09:06 AM
#132
The Left Coast, USA
Honestly, I'm happy going 15. The impetus for my question is entirely thinking about what it is going to take to get that century under my belt. Maybe I shouldn't even consider it for a few more years. My distance appreciated nicely over the course of the first 6 months of serious riding, but the speed did not. I didn't know if it would come with time or you had to train to achieve it.
I remember last June I was just starting to really get into riding. I had worked my way up to 20 milers and felt good about it. I went over to the Harpeth River Ride here in Nashville just to check it out and maybe get a glance at Lance and was watching the folks come in from the ride. I was amazed when a 'grandma', maybe 65, came over the finish line after riding the 62 miler. Unbelieveable! This year I'm going to ride that 62, so it's neat how your perspective changes.
I remember last June I was just starting to really get into riding. I had worked my way up to 20 milers and felt good about it. I went over to the Harpeth River Ride here in Nashville just to check it out and maybe get a glance at Lance and was watching the folks come in from the ride. I was amazed when a 'grandma', maybe 65, came over the finish line after riding the 62 miler. Unbelieveable! This year I'm going to ride that 62, so it's neat how your perspective changes.
04-28-12, 09:28 AM
#133
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At the risk of getting a lecture by AzTallRider; yes, your perspective does change. After a few years of long rides I got so bored I considered hanging it up, actually got into MTBing to make it more interesting. I am back road riding, but anything more than a few hours is almost unbearable...shear boredom. So my advice is to enjoy pushing your speed and distance but watch out for that feeling you are on grind, what's on the otherside is the perspective you are just wasting time.
I rode my track bike at the track on Tuesday doing motor pacing. Wednesday, I rode the trainer and did a simulated track workout that they are doing at Velo Sport Center velodrome in the evening sessions this week and Thursday, I rode with my wife on our local ride and did some power efforts on the hills. Today, we are riding TT bikes on the TT course working on power intervals. If I always rode the same equipment over the same course, as much as I like to ride my bike, it would certainly start to get boring.
IMO, riding a mountain bike or a fixie is a great way to keep the sport fresh and shock your body so that growth can continue. The mental part of cycling (focus, perseverance, motivation and desire to improve) can be just as limited as oxygen in the muscles to power the bike.
04-28-12, 03:08 PM
#134
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I agree with the changing things up. There are so many variables to our activity that are so easily applied to our advantage.
Hermes, there was a thread on this or other BF forum that I'd argued the use of a mountain bike onroad to help with power training. The techno engineers about shot me out of the saddle saying it was mostly in my head. Pfffft. If you have a 15lb CF bike and you need some variety, toss in a MTB interval training ride....shoot, every MTB ride is interval....and see how you love that CF bike again
Hermes, there was a thread on this or other BF forum that I'd argued the use of a mountain bike onroad to help with power training. The techno engineers about shot me out of the saddle saying it was mostly in my head. Pfffft. If you have a 15lb CF bike and you need some variety, toss in a MTB interval training ride....shoot, every MTB ride is interval....and see how you love that CF bike again
Last edited by OldsCOOL; 04-28-12 at 03:11 PM.
04-28-12, 04:06 PM
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OldsCOOL; This is BF...what do you expect. The only thing I see with mountain bike riding as a negative is too much hill climbing and not enough high cadence work in the drops. Let's face it. Unless one rides a mountain bike next to a river, one is going to have to climb a lot. If you climb a lot, you will get good at climbing. IMO, the power meter takes away the aspect of riding a heavy bike for training and then switching to a light bike for events such that it feels easier. If you do power climbing intervals, the weight of the bike, road conditions and wind are taken out of the equation.
07-12-15, 08:22 PM
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This thread is three years old...
10-13-15, 09:32 AM
#140
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Ride, and let ride.
These posts really put a sour taste in my mouth. Obviously, the OP wants to go faster. The fact that you don't want to is really not the point, now is it? This thread isn't about you and how slow you want to go, it's about the OP, and how fast HE wants to go.
And, by the way, riding faster isn't about "getting it over with". We faster riders also typically ride a lot -more- miles, because otherwise we most likely wouldn't be faster. Our fitness also allows to ride to places that might be unattainable for riders who aren't as fit, and see a lot of great sights as a result. Fast is fun, pure and simple. It also leads to a greater level of fitness, which can be extended late into life, with a wide range of health benefits.
And, by the way, riding faster isn't about "getting it over with". We faster riders also typically ride a lot -more- miles, because otherwise we most likely wouldn't be faster. Our fitness also allows to ride to places that might be unattainable for riders who aren't as fit, and see a lot of great sights as a result. Fast is fun, pure and simple. It also leads to a greater level of fitness, which can be extended late into life, with a wide range of health benefits.
Why should anyone have to justify their desire to increase their avg. speed? To me speed feels good. To those who are happy at 15, I'm happy for you. Start your own thread, if so inclined.
On increasing ones speed... a twist on Le Mond's famous words. You have to make it hurt more. Many ways to do that. Riding with slightly faster riders is great if you don't let it get discouraging. Intervals help, pushing yourself against a speedometer will definitely help. Just make sure you are healthy enough to do it.
When I was a young racer, I had to do most of my training solo. I had a stopwatch taped to my bars. Used cadence, heart rate and checked myself for time between known distances (like mini time trials) though out my rides. AI loved the rides, and I loved the feeling of getting stronger and faster.
As I have started riding again I sometimes mentally count my cadence in a particular gear to just push myself. Different purpose riding now, but I still want to feel "fast" for my age and health.
I'm such a techno geek, that I will probably get an ant+ power meter at some point. To some silly, to me fun. and that's the point. I enjoy it.
Ride on, ride on.
Cheers, Eric
10-13-15, 11:33 AM
#141
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Ride with those that are faster than you. You will become faster quickly, or go home alone.
10-13-15, 12:44 PM
#142
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In my 50's I would average around 22 - 23mph. At 73 I can no longer do this unless in a group. The major thing I have found other than trying to ride 200 mi weeks with a lot of climbing with intervals thrown in is to go to the gym and use weight machines, especially quad and hamstring machines. Do quite a few reps as opposed to few at max output. Power will increase along with power endurance. We are all different but I do 40 reps at just under 400 lbs. on quads and hamstrings at around bicycling range of motion settings. I still have a few Strava firsts in 65+ but admittedly they disappear as I age and have to take meds which lower my max heart rate.
10-13-15, 12:44 PM
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That is always an issue with a 3 year old thread that gets resurrected. The OP has moved on with life and the battle rages on behind.
John
Last edited by 70sSanO; 10-13-15 at 03:12 PM.
10-14-15, 05:03 AM
#144
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Just time in the saddle won't do it. The jump between 15 and 19 is huge. Interval training is probably the best bet for increasing speed. Or, if you can ride with others who ride faster you'll have to work harder to keep up. Taking off some of the weight will also help. Regardless of the methods you use, make sure to get adequate rest/recovery.
Amazing, to go 27% faster you need to put out 100% more power.
10-14-15, 06:38 AM
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These posts really put a sour taste in my mouth. Obviously, the OP wants to go faster. The fact that you don't want to is really not the point, now is it? This thread isn't about you and how slow you want to go, it's about the OP, and how fast HE wants to go.
And, by the way, riding faster isn't about "getting it over with". We faster riders also typically ride a lot -more- miles, because otherwise we most likely wouldn't be faster. Our fitness also allows to ride to places that might be unattainable for riders who aren't as fit, and see a lot of great sights as a result. Fast is fun, pure and simple. It also leads to a greater level of fitness, which can be extended late into life, with a wide range of health benefits.
And, by the way, riding faster isn't about "getting it over with". We faster riders also typically ride a lot -more- miles, because otherwise we most likely wouldn't be faster. Our fitness also allows to ride to places that might be unattainable for riders who aren't as fit, and see a lot of great sights as a result. Fast is fun, pure and simple. It also leads to a greater level of fitness, which can be extended late into life, with a wide range of health benefits.
10-14-15, 10:06 AM
#146
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This thread has become like the "has been" bands" that play at the riverboat casinos. In many cases, an original member is not present, just like this thread and the OP who has not posted since 11/1/14.
Based on that, I hereby dub this a "Lazarus" thread.
Based on that, I hereby dub this a "Lazarus" thread.
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