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Boom Bikes Post-Boomers

Old 12-26-19, 10:13 PM
  #101  
tashi
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Originally Posted by jackbombay
Because it's not subjective, and because it is related directly to the efficiency of the frame.



But almost none of that comfort improvement is in the frame, its all in the 38c tire with 40 psi in it.



Thanks for the insult!



I probably ride more varied bikes than you, my list of bikes that I have ridden at least half centuries on, if not full centuries, 2018 Transition Scout MTB(aluminum), 2015 Specialized Roubaix(carbon), 1985 Dahon with 16" wheels (steel), my home made tall bike pretty much all parts from the 1900's ;-) (Its steel too), a 1963 hercules 3 speed I did a full resto mod build on 15 year ago. I can appreciate different characteristics of any bike/drivetrain, but I do get a good chuckle out of how little bikes have actually improved over the last 30 years, especially considering how expensive they are now.


I said, “GOOD DAY”
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Old 12-26-19, 10:14 PM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by jamesdak
LOL, Domane with H2 Geometry is marketed as their comfortable road bike. And I too am clearly talking about comfort. My steel rides so much more comfortably on the rough chipseal roads which then allows for the greater speed.
Recently I rode my 2007 carbon Roubaix, up California Highway 1 past Hearst Castle to the lighthouse, on 25c Gatorskins. The approx 1 inch chip seal really rattled my teeth. I have also ridden that road on my '73 531 frame Raleigh Super Course, and on last April's Eroica, on my steel Legnano Roma, both on Pasela 28s, and never gave the chip seal a thought. Was it the steel, or the Pasela 28s? Either way, no comparison. I don't ride a lot of chip seal, but when I do, I prefer steel.
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Old 12-26-19, 10:52 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by Slightspeed
Recently I rode my 2007 carbon Roubaix, up California Highway 1 past Hearst Castle to the lighthouse, on 25c Gatorskins. The approx 1 inch chip seal really rattled my teeth. I have also ridden that road on my '73 531 frame Raleigh Super Course, and on last April's Eroica, on my steel Legnano Roma, both on Pasela 28s, and never gave the chip seal a thought. Was it the steel, or the Pasela 28s? Either way, no comparison. I don't ride a lot of chip seal, but when I do, I prefer steel.
Yep, I've always been more about comfort than speed. But I've found that my steel allows me both so it's all good to me.
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Old 12-27-19, 12:16 AM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by nlerner
I find it impossible to generalize about any tubing material as the quality if the ride has to do with so many variables in addition to frame material. Case in point: I had a 90s Merlin Ti bike that just had a wonderful ride, great mix of light weight, reasonably aggressive geometry, but really stable handling. Unfortunately it was a tad too small for me and could barely fit 25mm tires, which left me feeling pretty beat up after 100k to 200k rides. So I sold it. Last year I bought a Carver Ti frame with the plan to swap over the components that had been on the Merlin. It’s my lightest bike, a shade under 20 lbs, but it has a remarkably sluggish ride, not even in the same neighborhood as the Merlin. I’ll be selling it come spring (and bought a steel-framed bike to fill that niche!).
This man speaks the truth. Type of material does not inherently provide a certain ride quality. Design matters. And parts, tires in particular.
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Old 12-27-19, 01:14 AM
  #105  
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I do not concern myself with my bike's weight, as I am the heaviest of we two. I no longer concern myself with speed, as I focus on exercise and the joy of riding. Certainly, I do not worry about having the latest and greatest componentry. Quite the opposite, in fact, as I put all the original components back on my bike - even the 5 speed freewheel.

I've never ridden a graphite composite bike, or titanium. My comment about being "soul-less" was not directed at them. It refers to a lot of steel bikes I've ridden over the years, even bikes that are more modern than my 531 Bob Jackson. Examples follow.

I had a 1973 Raleigh Grand Prix (1020 steel), soft ride but sluggish on the climbing. It never gave back what you put in (back when I could put it in).

1980's double butted steel by Novara (REI brand), by Specialized and several others - all super-well made but kind of dead, lacking in liveliness.

My Bob Jackson has been on Hwy 1 around Cambria and Hearst Castle many times. It manages to soak up the road irregularities, yet is a lively climber if you ride up the road to the Hearst Castle Visitor Center or on the back roads east of there. It always gives back what you put in.

When I grab the Bob Jackson, it almost jumps into my hands. It is light. It is lively. There is no question, it is superior to any other bike I've ridden (which is not many).

I am certain these bikes will not be valued or even used by the coming generations of kids who do not seem inclined to go out and ride a bike.

Last edited by Bad Lag; 12-27-19 at 11:22 AM.
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Old 12-27-19, 03:34 AM
  #106  
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In the future, C&V bikeforums members will be cockroaches, posting threads and replys about their Schwinn Varsities! (start collecting them now).

Last edited by gbi; 12-27-19 at 03:44 AM.
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Old 12-27-19, 06:44 AM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by tashi
This man speaks the truth. Type of material does not inherently provide a certain ride quality. Design matters. And parts, tires in particular.
This is so true today as it was 40 years ago. I just find it funny that they are now trying to "design" compliance into new bikes that was there in the old. Part of the point of why there really hasn't been a lot of measurable improvement for the type of riding a bunch of us do. All that really matters though is that we get out and ride.

For years a lot of bikes were hindered by only taking skinny tires. Now they are designing all this clearance like it is something new. Then I look at my mid 80s' Orbea Cabestany. Even with 700 x 30/32 tires there's still a ton of room for even wider tires. This from a top end race bike that's 35 years old. This was the winning bike for Delgado at the 1985 Vuelta. Yet is this really all that different from the bikes they are pushing now days and touting as "new"?


Yep, plenty of room for more.

Oh, and I am running 10 speed on this now with the old original shifters. Works great.


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Old 12-27-19, 07:50 AM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by Bad Lag
I am certain these bikes will not be valued or even used by the coming generations of kids who seem to be satisfied to interminably stare at their phones and play video games all day long instead of going out and enjoying a bike ride.
Why are you certain of this? Old tech/products like records, older houses, old cars, books, cameras, etc are all valued by segments of young generations right now. I see no reason why older bikes wont be valued by segments of young generations too. Perhaps the older bikes they value arent the ones you value, but thats a you issue versus a them issue.
You are doing a heck of a job playing the trope of bitter old online male rambling on about the shortcomings of younger generations. Really playing that part well- pretty much nailed the trope to a T.

Instead of ranting incorrectly about entire generations, perhaps encourage some kids to go ride with you. Grandkids, neighborhood kids, local youth organization- really doesnt matter who it is. Ride to a park or to get ice cream. If you are convinced entire generations are just going to stare at their phones and play video games instead of going outside, be the catalyst that gets some outside.
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Old 12-27-19, 09:39 AM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by iab
Interesting thread wander. But for my .02 on biggest tech improvements in the last 30 years for road bikes. In order.
  1. Aero - frame, wheels, clothing. Biggest factor on speed, no doubt. I also very much enjoy the aesthetic of internal cable routing, I like minimizing clutter. fwiw, Taurus was doing this 90 years ago, but it was forgotten.
  2. Power meter. Makes for a boring race, but highly effective. Also makes for a more effective engine.
  3. 12-speed rear. No accommodating a distressing cadance.
  4. Carbon fiber. I debated this in my tiny brain as #3 or #4 . Fact of the matter, it lowered bike weight by at least a kg. Makes all the difference on a 3000m gain. While I own no carbon, I have ridden it and do not find any more or less "soul".
  5. Electronic shifting. Again, don't own it, but used it with great joy. Easy. Fast. Precise. Under any load.
  6. Disc brakes. I know #5 was a stretch. And I have never used them, so I really don't know if they rank anywhere. But there is potential as I do know brakes let you go deeper into a corner, which will win you an auto race every day of the week (my only experience).

Aero has come a long way too- the original "aero" bikes were suited to the wind from straight in front. at almost any yaw angle, the section would stall and the drag would climb fast. Ooops. Then came the same for aero wheels. the Zipp 404's are hard to beat.

Going uphill when speed drops the benefit of aero does too, the wheels being the last stop being of help- so good wheels before aero frame.

If I was racing, I would have a powermeter. My last race was in 1976.

11 is pretty close, 12 is just that much more. Can Harry Shearer do an update?

All-up mass does make a difference. the theme was $10 per gram lost. I would spend it on wheels.

My view of electronic shifting is that it turns the bike into an object of planned obsolescence. Kind of like an iphone, very useful but for how long?

I think disc brakes are the future, if for no other reasons of better modulation and more all weather predictability. Front being more important. I am working on a bike with a front disc only.


Left out are tires and clothing.

The measure of tire power loss, in aero drag and rolling resistance is now really being able to be measured. The Continental Grand Prix 5000 is hard to beat but I really wish it came in a tan side wall.

For clothing, the modern, low wrinkle, stretch fabric gear is not to be ignored, same issue as aero bike, the slower, the less of an effect.
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Old 12-27-19, 09:49 AM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by tashi

I said, “GOOD DAY”
Is there a rule I missed here that states I'm not allowed to post when you say "good day" to me?

I didn't think so.

I'm stoked on my "new" C&V bike, I'm amazed at how sweet it is, so I posted about it, and I made fun of the modern bike industry at the same time.

What rule did I break? Am I not supposed to be stoked on my "new" bike? Am I not supposed to post about it here? Am I only allowed to post praise for the modern bike industry?

At any rate, I do hope you have a nice day.
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Old 12-27-19, 10:01 AM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by jackbombay
Is there a rule I missed here that states I'm not allowed to post when you say "good day" to me?

I didn't think so.

I'm stoked on my "new" C&V bike, I'm amazed at how sweet it is, so I posted about it, and I made fun of the modern bike industry at the same time.

What rule did I break? Am I not supposed to be stoked on my "new" bike? Am I not supposed to post about it here? Am I only allowed to post praise for the modern bike industry?

At any rate, I do hope you have a nice day.
You’re allowed to talk about whatever you want, but if you’re argumentative and irritating you can expect that people will ask you to leave them alone, and probably with more force if you don’t get it the first time.
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Old 12-27-19, 10:06 AM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by tashi
You’re allowed to talk about whatever you want, but if you’re argumentative and irritating you can expect that people will ask you to leave them alone, and probably with more force if you don’t get it the first time.
Thanks for the insult!
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Old 12-27-19, 10:11 AM
  #113  
tashi
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Originally Posted by jackbombay
Thanks for the insult!
Please, for the fourth time now, leave me alone. If you insist on pestering me further, please do so via PM so the rest of the forum doesn’t have to wade through it.
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Old 12-27-19, 11:19 AM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
.
You are doing a heck of a job playing the trope of bitter old online male rambling on about the shortcomings of younger generations. Really playing that part well- pretty much nailed the trope to a T.
...
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Old 12-27-19, 11:27 AM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Why are you certain of this? Old tech/products like records, older houses, old cars, books, cameras, etc are all valued by segments of young generations right now. I see no reason why older bikes wont be valued by segments of young generations too. Perhaps the older bikes they value arent the ones you value, but thats a you issue versus a them issue.
You are doing a heck of a job playing the trope of bitter old online male rambling on about the shortcomings of younger generations. Really playing that part well- pretty much nailed the trope to a T.

Instead of ranting incorrectly about entire generations, perhaps encourage some kids to go ride with you. Grandkids, neighborhood kids, local youth organization- really doesnt matter who it is. Ride to a park or to get ice cream. If you are convinced entire generations are just going to stare at their phones and play video games instead of going outside, be the catalyst that gets some outside.
You are correct and I do.

Actually, I came here to delete that part of the post (which is bogus) and have done so. Then I read your post, which is spot-on!
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Old 12-27-19, 11:48 AM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by repechage
My view of electronic shifting is that it turns the bike into an object of planned obsolescence. Kind of like an iphone, very useful but for how long?
It has been since the beginning. 1934, cambio corsa. 1951 Gran Sport. 1960 Record. 1966 Nuovo Record. 1972 Super Record. And so on. My friend is using his 2012 EPS with no complaints, but I'm surprised he hasn't moved to 12 yet.
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Old 12-27-19, 12:07 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by Darth Lefty
What happened to the 1890s bike boom bikes?
Originally Posted by repechage
That is an interesting date. The "safety" bicycle was not universal, pneumatic tires were catching on....
While early 1890s bicycle sales were trending upwards, due the innovations of safety bicycles with chain drive rear wheels and pneumatic tyres, the bicycle boom didn't arrive until the mid-1890s. A recession hit the USA in 1893 and bicycles were one a the few products that were selling well. As a result, the following years saw an large increase in the number of bicycle companies, with many new companies and some companies diversifying or shifting to bicycle manufacture. This influx increased volume and competition, driving down prices and increasing sales, until the market was saturated. While reliable hard industry statistics are difficult to obtain, the 1890 bicycle boom is generally considered to be circa 1894-1897. By this time the pneumatic tyred safety bicycle was firmly entrenched and hard or cushioned ordinaries were rarities.
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Old 12-27-19, 12:55 PM
  #118  
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Yes, indeed, @tashi. Speaking of nice lines with steel bikes, Raleigh and Bianchi are two companies that have large varieties of nice bikes, some steel, and some other.
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Old 12-30-19, 02:29 PM
  #119  
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What I like about older steel bikes is the comfortable ride from the shock absorption properties of the curve in the front fork. The curve means that the elastic qualities of the steel can be fully exploited by distributing the bending force over a larger distance. When riding at any speed, road irregularities such as from chipseal paving, push the wheel back as well as up; while the tires and rims cushion some of the movements, the vibrations that get to the axle of the front wheel will be further cushioned by the spring effect of a curved fork. A straight fork lacks this spring, and so the vibrations will be transferred without cushioning to the headset, and eventually to your hands and arms. Materials that are stiff (rigid) such as carbon fibre reinforced polymer, will tend to break more easily, whereas aluminum alloy (and possibly titanium) will fatigue and fail faster, if manufactured in a curved configuration. So, for comfort, you need the curve, and to have the curve, you need steel.

Does anyone know if curved forks are being made with stainless steel?
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Old 12-30-19, 05:57 PM
  #120  
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Will become collectables

Just like babyboomer cars have become highly valued as collectables and works of art and craftmanship. Babyboomer steel bike will also.
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