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About "Support local bike shops"

Old 02-05-20, 12:01 PM
  #76  
RH Clark
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Or maybe you're a condescension addict.

They're providing services people pay for. Are they violating your sense of artistic integrity?
Why don't you go back and read the first thing I said about this subject.
Here you go my quick to jump to misled conclusions friend. I take that to mean something more along the lines of, "Hey take the time to get to know us. It's hurtful if you come in and take up hours of our time to learn what you want, then go buy it somewhere else."
That's what I had to say about bike shops getting paid for their services. The only thing I have a problem with is attitude and you seem to be jumping to take up that banner.
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Old 02-05-20, 12:11 PM
  #77  
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Who could have ever envisioned an LBS thread going four pages?

Some LBS are good and some are not. Some LBS employees are good and some are not. Some LBS meet our needs and some do not. Nobody has any kind of duty to support any LBS. A good LBS that has good employees and has the products and services that fits my needs is somewhat rare in my experience. I happily support those that check all of the boxes.
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Old 02-05-20, 12:24 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
I don't think that is a Trek ... maybe a Percheron .....
As noted, it's a draft horse breed called a Belgian.
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Old 02-05-20, 12:25 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by RH Clark View Post
Why don't you go back and read the first thing I said about this subject.
Here you go my quick to jump to misled conclusions friend. I take that to mean something more along the lines of, "Hey take the time to get to know us. It's hurtful if you come in and take up hours of our time to learn what you want, then go buy it somewhere else."
That's what I had to say about bike shops getting paid for their services. The only thing I have a problem with is attitude and you seem to be jumping to take up that banner.

Sorry, but your writing is so badly structured, I can't even figure out what you're saying is making you sad. Is it the fact that a LBS is staying in business by charging people for impersonal easy service or that they don't want you taking up their time to inform your online purchases? When I asked you to clarify, you made the comment that my not understanding you is sad and then jumped to the conclusion that all I care about is money. As far as not wanting to educate you for your online purchases, strikes me that you're the one trying to get their expertise and knowledge for free and are upset that they expect to get paid for their time.
Maybe I'm misinterpreting you, but if so, I really don't think it's my fault that you're expressing yourself so poorly.

I'm not the one with the bad attitude here.
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Old 02-05-20, 12:52 PM
  #80  
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I don't know what's so difficult for you to understand. I told you to read my original post and then actually inserted it and put in dark bold letters so you wouldn't miss it. You still missed it. I'm done discussing it because it's a waste of time.
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Old 02-05-20, 01:32 PM
  #81  
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Oi. as far as it goes, @livedarklions, I don't get what he is sad about either. What he Said was that one shop in his area is supported by people just buy bikes and drop them off for service, which he finds sad.

I include the entire post so no one will accuse me of taking things out of context.

Originally Posted by RH Clark View Post
I take that to mean something more along the lines of, "Hey take the time to get to know us. It's hurtful if you come in and take up hours of our time to learn what you want, then go buy it somewhere else."

I am fine with that attitude and I have learned to avoid one shop and go to another. The one I avoid doesn't really want my small stuff business, like parts and accessories. The other is glad to help me out with anything and is more of a Co-Op that helps the community and promotes cycling. I've spent a few hundred with them in a few months and it's been great. What is sad is that the shop I avoid has to rely on people who just want to buy bikes and drop them off for cleaning and to be maintained. It makes me wonder which type shop will survive in the long term. (Emphasis added)
So … he is saddened that people go to a shop, buy bikes, and bring those bikes back to the shop for service …. Which is pretty much …. What a Bike Shop Is For.

For some reason, bikes shops functioning as bike shops saddens him
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Old 02-05-20, 01:34 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Wow! I have seen four, but never six. They might be Belgians. I have seen them in Amish country.
Eight Clydesdales plus a Dalmatian hauling some beer through town.

.
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Old 02-05-20, 01:55 PM
  #83  
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The guy on foot looks to be a Clydesdale, too.
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Old 02-05-20, 02:01 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Oi. as far as it goes, @livedarklions, I don't get what he is sad about either. What he Said was that one shop in his area is supported by people just buy bikes and drop them off for service, which he finds sad.

I include the entire post so no one will accuse me of taking things out of context.



So … he is saddened that people go to a shop, buy bikes, and bring those bikes back to the shop for service …. Which is pretty much …. What a Bike Shop Is For.

For some reason, bikes shops functioning as bike shops saddens him
Now you're going to make him even sadder because you don't understand what makes him sad.

It's so weird, the post appears to be a complete non sequitur with his highlighted language having absolutely no logical connection to the part of the quote you highlighted. Thanks for confirming it's not just me who can't follow him.
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Old 02-05-20, 02:11 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by Kedosto View Post
Like deja vu all over again.

-Kedosto

Have not been disappointed.



-Kedosto
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Old 02-05-20, 02:20 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Eight Clydesdales plus a Dalmatian hauling some beer through town.

.
I have seen that in my 'hood. Bud sponsors the Made in America Festival at the Art Museum. For several years they brought the wagon and Clydesdales for a parade down Fairmount Ave. Not sure if they have done it recently. Just haven't seen 6 plowing.
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Old 02-05-20, 03:05 PM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
I have seen that in my 'hood. Bud sponsors the Made in America Festival at the Art Museum. For several years they brought the wagon and Clydesdales for a parade down Fairmount Ave. Not sure if they have done it recently. Just haven't seen 6 plowing.

Just for future reference, I don't recommend riding a bike behind that rig.
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Old 02-05-20, 04:14 PM
  #88  
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I am shocked and saddened to find there is arguing going on in an LBS thread . . . . . . shocked and saddened, I tell you. I hope the ususal suspects are done and can move along now.
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Old 02-05-20, 04:29 PM
  #89  
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You guys who walk into your LBS only to be disappointed - use a phone first. Save time, save frustration, maybe save some gasoline. If you have only 1 or 2 shops to choose from then that's just the way it is.

One advantage of not supporting an LBS that does not serve your needs is that you may learn to be more maintenance oriented and capable. Their loss is a new skill for you. Embrace it.
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Old 02-05-20, 04:29 PM
  #90  
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I love these threads. It gives everyone that ever got bad service from a bike shop anywhere or saved $5 by buying online to air their gripe and feel justified.

It rained on me today while I was driving down I-55, therefore everyone should drive on some other road!
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Old 02-05-20, 05:10 PM
  #91  
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I only visit my local bike shops occasionally if I need to purchase parts or if it's time to buy a new bike...I am under no obligation to spend thousands of dollars per year to support bikes shops or to visit them every week and buy beer, coffee and donuts for bike shop employes... I have purchased a lot of my bike parts and components at MEC which is similar to REI. The prices at MEC are better than bike shops and they are well stocked with many brand name quality bike parts, accessories and components.
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Old 02-06-20, 05:28 AM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
Who could have ever envisioned an LBS thread going four pages? .
I know ... i figured eight or ten .....
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Old 02-06-20, 05:40 AM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
You guys who walk into your LBS only to be disappointed - use a phone first. Save time, save frustration, maybe save some gasoline.
I wouldn’t know since I can walk to several, but maybe they enjoy complaining on the Internets more.
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Old 02-06-20, 06:10 AM
  #94  
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I support my LBS when I can. With the addition of mobile bike services, I use them. The only thing that would make LBS better is improved service and parts availability. I went to my LBS for parts recently, they don't know if they can find parts for my bike. It's sad. Some of the bikes that LBS sells are very pricey too. Do you really get what you pay for? Lots of parts and bikes are made in one factory and rebranded. I am not sure. That statement is commission based. I purchase thing where I get the best value. Like in retail if you want to shop at Macy's go ahead. I buy things at Target, Amazon, Walmart, Costco..etc. Bicycle culture is evolving like everything else.
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Old 02-06-20, 06:50 AM
  #95  
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I think that bicycle shops have changed a lot from the 1980s. At least the ones I see around here have. Most have only one line of bicycle make, have few parts or components in stock and charge a fairly high rate for labour and can't tell you how long something will take to do.

If I need a component or a part and the shop tells me they have to order it and that it'll take upwards of two weeks for the item to arrive, I figure I might as well order the item myself and have it delivered right to me rather than having to make another trip to the shop to pick it up.

The closest shop to me charges $40.00 per hour for labour but couldn't estimate the time a job would take. No thanks.

I like fixing my own bicycles most of the time.

Oh, another thing. A lot of shops do not know how to work on vintage components.

There are still some good shops out there as well as terrible ones. the trick is to find the good ones without getting something on your bike ruined.

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Old 02-06-20, 08:25 AM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by OuterMarker View Post
I've got 3 bikes. Two were purchased at local shops, and one was purchased online from Canyon. I recently posted a picture of my Canyon and mentioned that I had to adjust the brakes. I got into a heated discussion with someone who claimed I got what I deserved since I bought from a company that is "destroying bike culture." Aside from the facts that my Canyon is 2 years old so well outside of any bike store warranty and that re-aligning brakes is something that someone should be capable of doing mid-ride without going to a shop, it got me thinking. How much are we supposed to support local shops?


For that Canyon, I recently spent $400 for a local shop to do a complete tear down and reassembly. I personally don't like the 2 brands that this bike shop has, so I would have never bought my bike from them. But because I purchased a Canyon, they were able to get some business from me. Since then, I have gone back to that shop to buy additional accessories.


And what about building a bike? I'm in the process of building a winter bike and lots of people in the bike community seem to think building your own bike is acceptable. Doesn't that also hurt local bike shops? Do those that hate the direct to consumer sales model of Canyon and similar manufactures also look down on people who build their own bike or buy used ones on Craigslist/eBay?

as a consumer I think Canyon is fine and anyone who gives you slack about direct to consumer models is crazy since most major bike brands now sell directly to consumers online yet at much higher margins. Yes in the end this will effect LBS but like any retail consumers are buying online and not in shops as much anymore. For the past 4 years I have only bought bikes online since on average I was getting 40% off retail and I was able to find bikes in my size which most shops never carry. I do however bring my bikes to local shops for maintenance or to install parts i simply don't have the patience or tools for.


For your instance yeah buying from Canyon you probably understood you simply would only have phone or email support and long term warranty issues become more of a problem. I will say warranties are such a fickle beast and while LBS love to work with you it really comes down to the bike rep or the manufacture them self approving whatever claim. I have had some shops do basic work like install pedals or index gears for free but in your instance I guarantee you would have been paying for that kind of service no matter what


LBS simply need to adapt. A great example of this is Piermont Bikes by my in NY. Amazing store with a huge selection of bikes, accessories, and parts at reasonable prices and they even have a pretty awesome cafe in store. However they differentiate themselves by being a multi faceted store that sells on ebay, takes in people's used bikes or parts and sell them on ebay for store credit, they sell leftover wholesale bikes ob ebay and are very transparent on the markups. I recently bought a bike that had a $3700 MSRP. The owner said yes it's a new in box bike with warranty and he would do $1900 in which he was making $200 profit, which was transparent and IMO very honest. He did say for $2200 I could buy the bike in store and it would include assembly and lifetime adjustments. I asked how much just assembly would be and he said $100, so basically for a LBS experience for minor adjustment I would be paying a $200 premium after assembly. I decided to just buy the bike and paid him $100 to assemble, ultimately I probably regret paying $100 because as soon as I got there he literally took my bike off the rack and his tech just greased and torqued parts to spec and indexed gears.Now with direct to consumer bike companies I think people are seeing that there is a bit of fluff in LBS pricing or people are now seeing they can find their desired bike in their size online new for dramatically less and they are not at the mercy of their LBS having it in stock or having to order it.

Last edited by Jrasero; 02-06-20 at 08:51 AM.
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Old 02-06-20, 08:37 AM
  #97  
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I have several thoughts on this topic:

1. I've had several very good experiences buying bikes from consumer-direct companies. The bikes I've purchased have generally been as high quality as bike shop brands and generally been reliable. I'd say I've saved about 25% on average vs buying a similar LBS bike.

2. I decided to buy a modern high end carbon road bike last year and went LBS. There were several reasons for this: they sold the exact bike I wanted, the bike in question actually represented a good value and modern road bikes are generally a pain to work on. This has also been a great experience: the bike shop took care of fitting and setting up the bike (a major task with aero/integrated front ends with internal everything with a Di2/hydraulic setup). I also have had a few niggling issues with this bike, all have been resolved quickly and at no charge to me by the shop.

3. The LBS in question is a high end/specialist shop and locally famous for being well stocked. Still, almost everything not made by an LBS-only brand in there is available significantly more cheaply online. Tires, tools, bags, clothing: all are frankly outrageously expensive in there and the selection still doesn't compare to something like Competitive Cyclist. The result in this case is a small selection of extremely pricey stuff. I'm a fanatical cyclist with a fair amount of disposable income, but I'm sorry I'm not paying $120 for some softshell shoe covers that aren't exactly the ones I want.

4. Non-specialist, garden variety bike shops are basically worthless to niche cyclists like me. I'm looking for weirdo stuff like Rene Herse tires, Morgan Blue bike cleaning brushes, GripGrab mid-temperature gloves, a very specific version of an ISM saddle, 1x crankarms with a 110 BCD that will fit on a 73MM BB shell (try to find those...) and very specific clothing lines from the likes of Sportful and Bioracer. The average bike shop carries $450 hybrids and gel saddle pads, because that's what non-dorks want.

5. It's really hard to be a bike shop: profit margins are thin, good workers willing to work for peanuts are hard to find and you'r constantly being disintermediated by the very vendors/partners you work with. No one is getting rich owning a bike shop, even with absurd $120 shoe covers. Most bike shop owners I know are in it not to make money, they're in it because they genuinely love bikes. The bike shops in my area go out of their way to lead rides, sponsor races and teams, help out on trail work etc. I think that's worth supporting. I'm still likely going to buy a YT mountain bike this year, though.
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Old 02-06-20, 09:30 AM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
The guy on foot looks to be a Clydesdale, too.
Likely he's a St. Louisan or a Missourian.
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Old 02-06-20, 09:34 AM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
I have several thoughts on this topic:

1. I've had several very good experiences buying bikes from consumer-direct companies. The bikes I've purchased have generally been as high quality as bike shop brands and generally been reliable. I'd say I've saved about 25% on average vs buying a similar LBS bike.

2. I decided to buy a modern high end carbon road bike last year and went LBS. There were several reasons for this: they sold the exact bike I wanted, the bike in question actually represented a good value and modern road bikes are generally a pain to work on. This has also been a great experience: the bike shop took care of fitting and setting up the bike (a major task with aero/integrated front ends with internal everything with a Di2/hydraulic setup). I also have had a few niggling issues with this bike, all have been resolved quickly and at no charge to me by the shop.

3. The LBS in question is a high end/specialist shop and locally famous for being well stocked. Still, almost everything not made by an LBS-only brand in there is available significantly more cheaply online. Tires, tools, bags, clothing: all are frankly outrageously expensive in there and the selection still doesn't compare to something like Competitive Cyclist. The result in this case is a small selection of extremely pricey stuff. I'm a fanatical cyclist with a fair amount of disposable income, but I'm sorry I'm not paying $120 for some softshell shoe covers that aren't exactly the ones I want.

4. Non-specialist, garden variety bike shops are basically worthless to niche cyclists like me. I'm looking for weirdo stuff like Rene Herse tires, Morgan Blue bike cleaning brushes, GripGrab mid-temperature gloves, a very specific version of an ISM saddle, 1x crankarms with a 110 BCD that will fit on a 73MM BB shell (try to find those...) and very specific clothing lines from the likes of Sportful and Bioracer. The average bike shop carries $450 hybrids and gel saddle pads, because that's what non-dorks want.

5. It's really hard to be a bike shop: profit margins are thin, good workers willing to work for peanuts are hard to find and you'r constantly being disintermediated by the very vendors/partners you work with. No one is getting rich owning a bike shop, even with absurd $120 shoe covers. Most bike shop owners I know are in it not to make money, they're in it because they genuinely love bikes. The bike shops in my area go out of their way to lead rides, sponsor races and teams, help out on trail work etc. I think that's worth supporting. I'm still likely going to buy a YT mountain bike this year, though.
What's that?
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Old 02-06-20, 11:09 AM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
Likely he's a St. Louisan or a Missourian.
St. Louis is chock full of outstanding bike shops. Nearly all of them are heavily involved in the community, offer classes, sponsor races, charity rides, and weekly shop rides.
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