Camera setup for trail documentary?
03-04-21, 09:19 AM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Camera setup for trail documentary?
I love exploring new trails and bike routes around the DFW area. I always take lots of photos and I am thinking to start documenting it via video. But I have no experience with videos, cameras and I am looking for some ideas.
Are there any riders out there doing this?
I don't want to spend a fortune right now since I am not sure it will work at all.
Starting with the type of camera and power supplies. Are there some good entry level models? Gopro comes to mind but I assume there are others as well. What are must have features and nice but not mandatory options?
Power supply. Will batteries last for 7-8h rides or do I need power packs?
Where to mount the camera? Should it be fixed on the bike or the helmet so that viewers can see what I see when turning my head? Or would this be too much movement and bring to much fidgetiness into the video?
Also should it be live audio or should audio be added afterwards. I am talking about providing commentary along the way. Such as descriptions where to turn, point of interest along the way or any special trail/road conditions to be aware of.
What SW to use to cut the videos?
So basically lots of questions from a novice like me. Also any links to tutorials are very much appreciated.
Thanks
Are there any riders out there doing this?
I don't want to spend a fortune right now since I am not sure it will work at all.
Starting with the type of camera and power supplies. Are there some good entry level models? Gopro comes to mind but I assume there are others as well. What are must have features and nice but not mandatory options?
Power supply. Will batteries last for 7-8h rides or do I need power packs?
Where to mount the camera? Should it be fixed on the bike or the helmet so that viewers can see what I see when turning my head? Or would this be too much movement and bring to much fidgetiness into the video?
Also should it be live audio or should audio be added afterwards. I am talking about providing commentary along the way. Such as descriptions where to turn, point of interest along the way or any special trail/road conditions to be aware of.
What SW to use to cut the videos?
So basically lots of questions from a novice like me. Also any links to tutorials are very much appreciated.
Thanks
03-04-21, 11:05 AM
#2
Senior Member
Search YouTube for Texas Mountain Biking. Many videos. Most are shot using a GoPro. That's what I use for my road bike rides. Modest cost and tons of accessories to adapt to your needs. I use Adobe Premier Elements to edit which is fairly easy to use once you get the hang of it. For video that goes 7 to 8 hours you will need multiple SD cards and batteries. The GoPro Hero 8 or 9 has a removable battery. If you record audio while you ride then an external mic is best in most cases though lately I am using the internal mic with a silicone case/lanyard. External mics: Rode and Saramonic (?). They are smaller and not too expensive.
I used a helmet mount but the extra weight affects your neck muscles after a while.
I used a helmet mount but the extra weight affects your neck muscles after a while.
03-04-21, 08:42 PM
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Echoing what others have mentioned, GoPro is the way to go - the models with Hypersmooth tech (models 7 and up) offer the best stabilisation tech in the action camera market to smoothen out the video.
Do you need to record continuously though? Not only does that consume a lot of storage space, but also requires a ton of batteries. Plus trying to edit all that footage later is going to be a pain. A more common method is to only film the interesting parts of the ride.
As for audio, some good suggestions have been given but do bear in mind that if you use an external mic, you'll need an extra accessory such as the MediaMod. Also, addition to the suggestions, I'd also consider a lavalier mic (perhaps a wireless one) if you are going to be talking a lot.
Do you need to record continuously though? Not only does that consume a lot of storage space, but also requires a ton of batteries. Plus trying to edit all that footage later is going to be a pain. A more common method is to only film the interesting parts of the ride.
As for audio, some good suggestions have been given but do bear in mind that if you use an external mic, you'll need an extra accessory such as the MediaMod. Also, addition to the suggestions, I'd also consider a lavalier mic (perhaps a wireless one) if you are going to be talking a lot.
03-09-21, 12:56 AM
#6
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The closest thing that I might consider an action camera gimbal is the GoPro Karma Grip, but it's an add-on accessory and also pretty much outdated and no longer compatible with the latest models.
You might be thinking of the wearable gimbal from Feiyutech that mountain bikers love to use for their action camera footage, but again that gimbal is a separate thing.
Or you might be thinking the DJI Osmo Pocket, but DJI doesn't market that as an action camera.
Or the closest thing that I'm willing to concede as an action camera with gimbal is the Sony FDR-X3000, which I own, has a built-in 2-axis gimbal, but is old tech and is already outclassed by Hypersmooth, except maybe in low light.
So just in the action cameras market alone... what do we have? GoPro... DJI Osmo Action... old Sony cameras that they don't seem to bother to update (likewise Garmin)... and a multitude of cheap no-name action cameras... and among them all, Hypersmooth provides the best stabilization in the action camera market.
But really... for the OP looking for something to document his bike rides, an action camera together with a gimbal is probably going to be an unwieldy thing to have on a multi-hour ride.
03-09-21, 03:08 AM
#7
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The lowest cost, reliable documentation cameras for cycling, motorcycling, etc., are probably by Drift. Solid, compact but fewer features than most high end action cameras -- no stabilization, fewer mounts offered by Drift (although the cameras use standard tripod sockets and there are zillions of aftermarket mounting options).
I've used a pair of Drift Ghost X cameras for more than a year, no problems or complaints. I usually run front and rear, although occasionally mount one on my helmet. Weather resistant without needing a special housing, more compact and aero than the typical boxy GoPro type, very well made for the cost. The standard Ghost X battery lasts 5 hours. Newer Drift cameras run 8-9 hours, and there may still be 8 hour modular battery packs available for the "older" models like mine. But rather than buying another battery pack I'll probably just upgrade to the Ghost XL with 9 hour battery.
Drift cameras are popular with UK motorcyclists (Drift is based in the UK), so you'll find some good demo videos by users from that perspective.
Drift cameras offer flexible modes for traffic documentation. I mostly use the "car DVR" mode, which records in 5 minute segments with nearly seamless transitions between segments. As the media card fills up the newest recording overwrites the oldest. With a 32GB card the 5-hour battery is exhausted right about the time the card starts to fill up/overwrite. I've Encountered that only on a few long group rides, but never on a solo ride.
I prefer this mode because it's hands-free, records everything, even if I'm unconscious, and will continue until the battery is exhausted. If I was concerned about overwriting files I'd get a bigger card.
Some motorcyclists appear to prefer the "video tagging" mode, in which the camera runs continuously but saves to the media card only when the user presses a button. The camera can be set to record 10 seconds, 30, 1 minute, etc. It writes the 10 seconds before the button is pressed, and next 10 seconds (or whatever time increment the user chooses). I've tried it once but have no use for this mode. If I'm struck by a car, deer, etc., or crash badly, I probably won't be able to press the button to document what happened. I suppose the tagging mode is okay for vloggers who only want to record a few segments for a hastily assembled vlog, without sifting through hours of video. But I prefer continuous recording.
Mounting is very flexible. There's a ring around the lens that enables getting a level recording in standard aspect ratio regardless of how the camera is mounted. I don't know whether the ring physically turns the sensor, or -- if it's a square sensor -- merely sends a signal to tell the camera which orientation to use while preserving the standard landscape aspect ratio. Whatever, it works great -- as long as I remember to turn it appropriately for my rear facing camera, which is mounted upside down to clear my saddle rails and seat bag. Or, if mounted on the side of the helmet, I need to twist the ring to suit that orientation.
Drift primarily caters to motorcyclists so the cameras are provided with two simple mounts that glue onto a solid helmet using the excellent 3M VHB foam tape. I just use 3M and Scotch brand craft putty to hold my mount. It works fine and can be peeled off without leaving any residue or damaging the helmet.
Drift also has a strap-on helmet mount for vented bicycle helmets and a few other mounts, all sturdy plastic, but nothing special. The ratcheted angle adjustment on one of my handlebar mounts broke so I had to farm-rig a method to hold the angle I need. But the mount itself is fine so it's just a minor inconvenience, not a problem with structural integrity.
I also have a VanTop 4k GoPro-sorta-knockoff that's not bad at all for around $50. It has good stabilization, which offsets my bobble head effect with helmet mounting. But each removable battery is good for only an hour or 90 minutes. The camera itself is lightly made, not junky, but definitely not weather resistant. It includes a weather resistant housing with a clamp that cracked immediately. The housing mutes the audio so I don't use it anyway. Mostly I carry this on some longer runs, rarely on bike rides.
I've used a pair of Drift Ghost X cameras for more than a year, no problems or complaints. I usually run front and rear, although occasionally mount one on my helmet. Weather resistant without needing a special housing, more compact and aero than the typical boxy GoPro type, very well made for the cost. The standard Ghost X battery lasts 5 hours. Newer Drift cameras run 8-9 hours, and there may still be 8 hour modular battery packs available for the "older" models like mine. But rather than buying another battery pack I'll probably just upgrade to the Ghost XL with 9 hour battery.
Drift cameras are popular with UK motorcyclists (Drift is based in the UK), so you'll find some good demo videos by users from that perspective.
Drift cameras offer flexible modes for traffic documentation. I mostly use the "car DVR" mode, which records in 5 minute segments with nearly seamless transitions between segments. As the media card fills up the newest recording overwrites the oldest. With a 32GB card the 5-hour battery is exhausted right about the time the card starts to fill up/overwrite. I've Encountered that only on a few long group rides, but never on a solo ride.
I prefer this mode because it's hands-free, records everything, even if I'm unconscious, and will continue until the battery is exhausted. If I was concerned about overwriting files I'd get a bigger card.
Some motorcyclists appear to prefer the "video tagging" mode, in which the camera runs continuously but saves to the media card only when the user presses a button. The camera can be set to record 10 seconds, 30, 1 minute, etc. It writes the 10 seconds before the button is pressed, and next 10 seconds (or whatever time increment the user chooses). I've tried it once but have no use for this mode. If I'm struck by a car, deer, etc., or crash badly, I probably won't be able to press the button to document what happened. I suppose the tagging mode is okay for vloggers who only want to record a few segments for a hastily assembled vlog, without sifting through hours of video. But I prefer continuous recording.
Mounting is very flexible. There's a ring around the lens that enables getting a level recording in standard aspect ratio regardless of how the camera is mounted. I don't know whether the ring physically turns the sensor, or -- if it's a square sensor -- merely sends a signal to tell the camera which orientation to use while preserving the standard landscape aspect ratio. Whatever, it works great -- as long as I remember to turn it appropriately for my rear facing camera, which is mounted upside down to clear my saddle rails and seat bag. Or, if mounted on the side of the helmet, I need to twist the ring to suit that orientation.
Drift primarily caters to motorcyclists so the cameras are provided with two simple mounts that glue onto a solid helmet using the excellent 3M VHB foam tape. I just use 3M and Scotch brand craft putty to hold my mount. It works fine and can be peeled off without leaving any residue or damaging the helmet.
Drift also has a strap-on helmet mount for vented bicycle helmets and a few other mounts, all sturdy plastic, but nothing special. The ratcheted angle adjustment on one of my handlebar mounts broke so I had to farm-rig a method to hold the angle I need. But the mount itself is fine so it's just a minor inconvenience, not a problem with structural integrity.
I also have a VanTop 4k GoPro-sorta-knockoff that's not bad at all for around $50. It has good stabilization, which offsets my bobble head effect with helmet mounting. But each removable battery is good for only an hour or 90 minutes. The camera itself is lightly made, not junky, but definitely not weather resistant. It includes a weather resistant housing with a clamp that cracked immediately. The housing mutes the audio so I don't use it anyway. Mostly I carry this on some longer runs, rarely on bike rides.
03-09-21, 09:36 AM
#8
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Thread Starter
Thanks everyone for the useful comments. I will dig into it a bit deeper.
03-09-21, 11:47 PM
#9
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Lol so considering action cams and gimbals as two separate things is now "ignorant". Sure, whatever. You live in your little corner of the world and I'll be in mine 
03-09-21, 11:56 PM
#10
Junior Member
Ive been using the DJI Osmo action camera (Dji is known for their drones) and I have been pretty impressed, the "Rock steady" stabilization is pretty damn good. It is compatible with Gopro mounts as well. I am using a K-edge gopro mount to get the camera mounted under my Garmin. I have not uploaded any footage yet, but I like the little sucker. I have been getting about an hour and a half per battery with rock steady on, and recording 1080 @ 30fps. There is a battery pack you can get on Amazon too, so you can have an additional 3 batteries.
Amazon.com : DJI Osmo Action - 4K Action Cam 12MP Digital Camera with 2 Displays 36ft Underwater Waterproof WiFi HDR Video 145° Angle, Black : Camera & Photo
Amazon.com: K-Edge Go Big Pro Handlebar Mount (31.8 Black On-Center): Sports & Outdoors
Amazon.com : DJI Osmo Action - 4K Action Cam 12MP Digital Camera with 2 Displays 36ft Underwater Waterproof WiFi HDR Video 145° Angle, Black : Camera & Photo
Amazon.com: K-Edge Go Big Pro Handlebar Mount (31.8 Black On-Center): Sports & Outdoors
03-11-21, 11:05 AM
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My advice would be to snag an inexpensive action camera off Amazon and use it to learn how to make good videos. Learn what makes an interesting shot and what is boring. Learn how long a shot should be. Learn about POV. Learn about lighting. Learn about high speed/slow motion. Learn about tiny planet. Learn about panning. Learn about approaching/leaving sequences. Learn about editing (8 hrs of raw footage = 5~10 minutes of compelling video). Learn about the enhancement a quality, tastefully done soundtrack makes.
Then go buy that GoPro on a gimbal.
And a drone.
03-12-21, 12:59 PM
#12
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Thread Starter
Good advice. This is the reason why I am looking for cheap entry model. It is not all about the camera but about learning how to make good videos.
03-12-21, 07:25 PM
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While it is mostly good advice, but I think pay a bit more attention to what you get instead of just the cheapest generic brand action camera on Amazon. Is the stabilization good? How is the audio? How much can I expand/upgrade/add-on to it, or do I need to get rid of it and buy a new one if I'm ready to move up to the next level?
My point being, you don't want to buy something, then quickly realise the stablization is crap, the audio is crap, maybe even the video is crap, and there isn't much you can do other than get rid of it and buy a different camera, which is a waste of time and money.
That said, I think maybe a GoPro Hero 7 Black is a good middle ground between top-of-the-line and bottom barrel. It may not have the latest Hypersmooth tech but it's already pretty damn fine on it's own. The audio is decent if you want to narrate out in the field. If you end up not narrating (or adding narration in post), then nothing is lost; but if you find that you want to improve the audio out in the field, there are accessories available to add-on an external mic to the camera. And if you feel like it needs more stabilization, you can add-on an external device like a gimbal or use software stabilization like ReelSteady GO (which is specifically designed for the GoPro Hero series).
Also with a GoPro (or any action camera with a GoPro-style mount), you can find plenty of mounting options to try and see what you will be comfortable with. Handheld with a mini-tripod, attached to your handlebar, attached to your hand or wrist, clamped to your helmet, underneath the cycling computer, etc. Likely the mounting type you pick will depend a lot on your video shooting and presentation style -- something you probably want to spend time experimenting with. But probably don't get official GoPro mounts if there are cheaper 3rd party alternatives... the official GoPro ones are pretty pricey.
My point being, you don't want to buy something, then quickly realise the stablization is crap, the audio is crap, maybe even the video is crap, and there isn't much you can do other than get rid of it and buy a different camera, which is a waste of time and money.
That said, I think maybe a GoPro Hero 7 Black is a good middle ground between top-of-the-line and bottom barrel. It may not have the latest Hypersmooth tech but it's already pretty damn fine on it's own. The audio is decent if you want to narrate out in the field. If you end up not narrating (or adding narration in post), then nothing is lost; but if you find that you want to improve the audio out in the field, there are accessories available to add-on an external mic to the camera. And if you feel like it needs more stabilization, you can add-on an external device like a gimbal or use software stabilization like ReelSteady GO (which is specifically designed for the GoPro Hero series).
Also with a GoPro (or any action camera with a GoPro-style mount), you can find plenty of mounting options to try and see what you will be comfortable with. Handheld with a mini-tripod, attached to your handlebar, attached to your hand or wrist, clamped to your helmet, underneath the cycling computer, etc. Likely the mounting type you pick will depend a lot on your video shooting and presentation style -- something you probably want to spend time experimenting with. But probably don't get official GoPro mounts if there are cheaper 3rd party alternatives... the official GoPro ones are pretty pricey.
Last edited by atwl77; 03-12-21 at 07:33 PM.
