FlashBazbo

Sorry about this, but this post is in the form of a vent and/or rant. Indoor trainers. When I bought my last one (Wahoo Kickr Snap), the revised product had been on the market less than a year. I had problems with mine and, if you believed the Internet forums, a LOT of people did. They didn't do what they were sold as doing. Among the problems was that the trainer's connection with Zwift was bodgy. Wahoo fixed all the bugs within four to six weeks after I purchased mine -- but why didn't they fix the bugs before selling the product to the public?

Now, I'm in the market for a trainer again. I've narrowed my choices to the Wahoo Kickr, Wahoo Kickr Core, and Tacx Neo 2T. All three trainers are less than a year on the market. But all three trainers have established reputations of having problems! Wahoo's problems are bad enough and pervasive enough that the CEO did a YouTube video about them. The Neo 2T's issues are sufficiently bad that the usual product reviewers, having used the trainer for months, aren't comfortable even providing reviews! The 2T's predecessor, the Neo 2, has been out for about a year, but STILL doesn't provide all the features it was marketed as providing! Again, why not get the product right before unleashing them on the public?

Maybe this is accepted procedure in the home indoor exercise market? It seems that treadmills and ellipticals are susceptible of the same issues.

Trainer manufacturers . . . please do your testing BEFORE you sell us the product! Get the feature set established and working BEFORE you make promises you will never keep! It's no fun to buy a product only to discover it doesn't work as advertised.

End of rant.

mstateglfr 

Why would you narrow your choices down to 3 trainers with established reputations for not working properly?

I agree that its frustrating when products arent fully sorted out before reaching market, but when you know about it beforehand- its on you to silently accept what you get if you choose to buy one.

datlas 

Ask DCRainmaker. He knows everything.

FlashBazbo

You speak the truth, Captain Obvious.

I’ve narrowed to 3 based on what I’m looking for in a trainer. (Nothing wrong with that, I hope.). But I haven’t purchased. Just frustrated that, of the trainers on the market that claim to fit my specs, NONE is actually ready to be sold.

mstateglfr 

Ah, gotcha.

Is a dumb-setup not a good option for you?...normal basic trainer and a bluetooth speed/cadence sensor. It isnt as slick, but if the slick ones dont work well...

FlashBazbo

Troll much? (I think the entire forum knows the answer to that question.)

LAJ

Some legitimate questions were asked in a couple of posts, and you answered like this?

mstateglfr 

Wow, I wasnt trolling at all. I could have instead asked- why would a dumb-trainer setup not work for you? Perhaps that would have come off as less trollish?
Either way- ill see my way out.

eduskator

It is normal for new product to experience issues... That's why I usually never get the latest products, especially car makers when they launch new models - worst thing to do is to buy one right away lol.

If it's a brand issue however I'd suggest getting a brand that has better product feedback?

Jack Tone 

For what it's worth, I bought the original Tacx Neo in 2016 and have put thousands of miles on it. The only problem I ever noticed was once when I was in my lowest gear (34/32) climbing a 25% grade at low rpm, it felt like the tire slipped. Apparently the 2T has fixed that.

guachi

Competition?
Need to get a product to market?
Poor testing or quality control?
Belief they can just fix software problems after release?

I own a Kickr Core and it's worked fine under four months of heavy use. What were the current issues it's supposed to still have?

kissTheApex

Neo 2T is not even shipping, is it? The problem with it, if the reports are to be believed, they used the old software from Neo 2, and the old software pid loop is not quick enough for the new magnet configuration reaction time, which tacx is said to have 2T specific software finished up by the time the units are ready to ship.

TiHabanero

I can tell you exactly why they do this. YOU! You are coming back for more so apparently the problems the first time around were not enough for you to look elsewhere. Been there, done it, and have the T-shirt (literally, remember Farfegnugen?) Learned my lesson the second time around and switched brands, and very happy I did!

Lesson of the story is LOOK FOR ANOTHER BRAND.

FlashBazbo

If you read my post, you would see that I have considered other brands. They ALL seem to do the same thing. That's why I posted the thread. The entire industry seems to introduce their products before they are ready and I find that frustrating. (I think they learned it from Apple who learned it from Microsoft.)

Dopefish905

30 thousand kms on my kickr 16. 2 belts replaced but zero issues. This was before they moved their manufacturing over seas though...

old neos work great aswell. Neo2t has major problems right now not even a finished product.

Trsnrtr

As for selling before the bugs are worked out, I've been wondering that about Garmin since the introduction of the Edge 305 and every iteration since.

CyclingFool95 

I wanted a Kickr so i could add in the Climb. I went with the Core late last year. I zapped the first one, the issue reported on widely. The retailer gave me another one, which did not have the design fixes. Meanwhile, several weeks later, Wahoo sent me an improved one. I sent back the second one, which never had a problem. Third one, and Climb, have been working great. It was annoying, but Wahoo's customer support is excellent.

himespau 

At least they back things up with customer support.

burnthesheep

I bought a used Snap and the bearings smoked on the second ride. Guy was a saint and took it back.

Something like a bloody bearing in a trainer should be lifetime. Belts consumables. If a dumb fluid lasts forever then the mechanic parts that don’t wear on a smart trainer should also.

Wheel bearings in cars last 100’s of thousands of miles. BB in bikes usually last like 5 to 10k miles and they see weather and dirt and bike washes.

To me the warranty needs to be 2 years. 1 year is crap for a $600 to $1000 product. The EU laws require 2 years. Good ole ‘Murica, nope. Caveat emptor.

If I do buy, probably thru REI as they deal with the warranty within 1 year instead of the trainer maker.

I tend to agree that quoted failure rates of 3% are beyond abysmal. That’s nowhere in the “sigma” defect rate ballpark for acceptable quality. I’ve worked in places that track that stuff and we’d work towards 4 and 5 sigma. Not two.

If you worked in manufacturing ever, you’d realize how appalling 3% is.

firebird854

I run a Cycleops Magnus (M2), I have it controlled but setup the power source in Zwift, Trainerroad, etc. as my Powertap G3 so it never needs calibration and always has extremely accurate power. While I've had some small problems here and there, overall the setup has worked quite well and there've been no actual failures in thousands of indoor miles (I'm cursed now).

I'm just offering additional options.

zacster

I've got a Kickr Core and have been happy with it. It was an early one too, so it could have potentially had issues. The only issue to date was the chevron stickers came off, but what would you expect with stickers on something rotating that approaches the speed of sound from my awesome riding?

Just remember, you only read about the problems, not the happy owners that have nothing to say about it.

trainsktg

I bought my Kickr in mid 2015, so like a year or so after they were introduced? No issues other than needing to replace the belt last summer. It works equally well with an iPad or a PC&dongle. It has some where above 400 hours on it (mostly Zwift, some TrainerRoad and Fulgaz).

Keith

Cyclist753

FWIW- I wouldn't be so keen on a device that tries to immobilize your bicycle frame. It stresses the frame at the wrong points. The Kick Snap clamps to the rear axle and in vids you can see the rider 'torque-ing' the rear triangle unnaturally from the 'lever arm' created at the saddle. I'd recommend rollers. It's a more natural experience. I love my Kreitler rollers and have only needed to replace the belt a couple of times in 30 years. I use them routinely in winter.

Nubie

Sorry to burst your bubble, but REI’s return policy on trainers is 90 days. They consider them “outdoor electronics.”