oneclick 

EDIT: recent build pics in the bottom post

Rack tabs and double dropout eyes, pump peg (one must be missing) and wrapover look english to me, seller says seat tube is 28.6 and fixed cup left and 34.7mm; frame 2030gm, fork 720gm.
Zeus dropout eyelets look brazed on, has the boss for the upper knuckle spring of a Campag sport rear mech - no hole, but that says old.
Bottle bosses but no gear cable guides - somebody may have added those.
971 decal looks as though it was masked for that lovely colour (really, is a nice green) bad paint job.

pics from the listing:

randyjawa 

Zeus? That's what it appears to be stamped into the rear drop. Had a Zeus or two myself. Neat old road bike. Anyway, just my two cents worth.

juvela

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stated tube diameter eliminates FR, CH & ES as possible national origins

precious few cycles produced in the UK employing tubesets from Ateliers de La Rive

suggest to keep in mind BE & NL as possible national origins

we are clearly in the 'lx's here

Campag 621's employed on tt as housing stops, somewhat unusual

seat stay plug employed is one have not seen previously

note complete absence of gear cable guides/stops

chain stay bridge of unusually large diameter

shell appears to be of FR manufacture; possible RGF or RFG; may be a marking beneath the thick paint

if fork original would expect it to express Arregui Gran Sport ends Nr. 1001 & Nr. 1002

would like to read the observations of our illustrious low countries members


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repechage

Looks,respray to me. So tubing sticker is suspect.

juvela

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simple eno' to check steerer for marking


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oneclick 

Yes, but as I myself have masked what I thought important when doing resprays I have hopes.
The weight (claimed) bodes well, no pic of the seatlug slot to hint at whether it was pinched to hold that 26.8 post.

MauriceMoss

It also looks like a respray to me.
Those "puffy" looking wraparound stays look to me British more than anything else. That style usually makes me think of Brian Rourke.
It would be good to see some more detailed pics once you get the frame.

PhilFo 

Subscribed.
Always fascinating to follow mystery frames.

oneclick 

First off it was fast - expected Wed, came today.

Second it was obsessively well packed - dropouts screwed to blocks of wood cut exactly to size, extra bit for the hanger, about twenty pool noodles, loads of foam sheets, most of a roll of packing tape, zipties everywhere.
No disrespect to our Mr. Jawa, but it took me easily twice as long to unpack as any bike I have gotten from anybody.
Ever.

Third - well, here are the pics:

close-up of the headbadge remnant - looks masked to me, tiny ridge visible about 11 o'clock:



extra eyes have been added to both front and rear dropouts:







They are a little squarer in cross-section than the forged ones, and they look a bit like the rear rack mounts:




The seatstay wrapover is REALLY FAT, and nicely done as well, the chainstay bridge is similarly fat:






(more pics next post)

oneclick 

Vitus decal looks masked as well:



Diver's helmet cable stops, only one pump peg - and I'm not sure another was intended; there a spot where one might have been, seems touched up with a dot of paint, but if it was removed it was a *very* tidy job:





Under bb guides, and under downtube for bar-shifters as well:





One set of bottle bosses, and a close-up of the very small bb shell:




(more pics next post)

oneclick 

I like flat crowns - I really like this one, very smooth underside.
I had a really good look for maker's marks on the steerer to no avail.




No rose without a thorn:

oneclick 

Almost forgot - stats as I measured them
52cm seat-tube (c-c)
54cm top-tube
42cm chainstay (axle-mid-slot)
frame weighs - with bb and headset cups and seat-pin bolt - 2080g
fork weighs - with crown race - 710g
27.0 post fits just right
bb shell is just a little under 67mm wide

oneclick 

I took a wire wheel to that left seatstay attachment, wanted to see what's under that paint crack - it's just paint, the stay is solidly brazed.

And then I took a bit of sandpaper to the steerer - it's stamped.

"REYNOLDS"

Curiouser and curiouser...

Piff 

I would lean towards taking the frame into a frame builder and having them figure out if that really is a 27.0 seattube. Looks a bit flared, no?

Good to hear it isn't cracked!!!!

oneclick 

Might be camera angle, the post slides down all the way, no difference in clearance.

madpogue 

Might be worth taking some paint off the dropouts, see if it really does say "Zeus".

unworthy1

veeery INTeresting!
This has details all over the place: the headlugs are BCM, if the DOs are Zeus (as expected) this still doesn't mean "not Brit" since Brit builders used both.
But it's clearly had braze-ons and paint.
Did we get confirmation for all the threading (BB shell as well as fork steerer)? And does the fork have a "key slot" or a flat? Serial numbers on the steerer that match the BB shell?
DOs that match the fork ends? (nice fork but it still could be non-original)
So if a 27.0 fits the seat tube WITHOUT that shim, what was the shim doing size-wise?

madpogue 

At the risk of being "master of the obvious" about the shift cable guides, the under-BB shift cable guides must be "in-service" braze-ons. But does that me the originals were bolt-on above the BB? That would mean the rear chainstay stop would have been moved, I reckon.

And is it a trick of the light, or based on the under-BB photo, is the fixed cup not in straight?

oneclick 

Fixed cup was indeed crooked; I pulled it out by hand and put it back in and it went in correctly all the way no trouble.
Felt no seams in the chainstays.

I had a better look at the dropouts.
Yes the rears are Zeus Gran Sport.
The fronts are stamped Campagnolo, are flat, so 1010/1 "Sport"
Didn't see any serial on the fork.
Fork has a groove, not a flat.
Threads are all imperial.

All the paint will come off, in some places it's mostly off anyway.
I might keep the colour, it's a nice understated green, would go well with gold lug-lining.
I'll be particularly careful removing it, to check for tubing stamps and marks/discolouration from any clamp fittings that may have been used.

I have looked at every one of velobase's pics of headbadges, can't see anything that could be a match.
[Note to self^h^h^h^h all cheap bastards like me: send vbase money]
I had a look at twenty-plus pages of images from that search engine of various terms describing wrapover stays, nothing matches.
None showed a stay that did not taper, was half-shot and went over the top as a simple round half-tube.

Seatpost size was without the sleeve.

Had a good look for a top-of-stay rear cable stop, don't think there ever was one.
The stop matches the brake stops so likely done at the same time, though that does not mean at construction as it could have been an all-clamp frame.
Those and the dt stops and extra eyelets are touring mods, which matches the long chainstay which of course would have been done at construction.

More pics when the paint's off.

unworthy1

back to some frame questions: this might be a red herring since the fork ends are Campy while the DOs are Zeus, but anybody clock the make of the fork crown?
Looks familiar but not so familiar that I can pull out a name!

oneclick 

These chainstay crimps are quite long, like a Zeus 2000 chainstay (this isn't one, the 2K has a chainring crimp as well).
Second pic is with a 27:wheel, lots of clearance and yet well within the crimp.

MauriceMoss

Very interesting. The more details I see the more mysterious this thing becomes.

I think the bottom bracket shell is a Bocama with 'Trident' cutouts (not that it gets us any closer to solving this):



And what's with the number on the bb shell? Was that scratched in? I can't see a frame builder (even in a small shop) marking a frame like that as opposed to stamping a number (or leaving the frame blank). Very strange.

oneclick where did this frame come from (geographically)? Not sure if it might shed more light on this mystery.

MauriceMoss

I think the crown is a flat version of the Nervex Dubois:




Here are the two version side by side:

madpogue 

BB shell digits look very clearly stamped to me, just obviously struck before the cable guides were brazed on. Thus the assumption that the frame started out life set up for over-the-BB shift cabling.

oneclick 

I weighed it without all the hardware: 1890g, fork 700g

A digital protractor says the head- and seat-tubes are at just under 74 degrees.

The fork has about 40mm of offset.