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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Addiction LXXX

Old 10-27-20, 03:08 PM
  #2851  
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Originally Posted by phrantic09
Thats interesting, because I feel the same way about cadence.
I feel absolutely comfortable spinning in those regions, but for whatever reason, it just puts me closer to the redline; I think at some point I'm just spending too much energy keeping my legs from flying out of orbit.

Originally Posted by phrantic09
I’ve noticed it’s way harder to hold on for an interval in ERG than a similar effort would be outside. I haven’t don’t an indoor FTP test, but dropped 10w from outside to get an idea (and updated my intervals profile to match). I think the thing that kills me is temperature control, even in a 45 degree garage I was dying of heat.
Interesting. Have you tried with Slope mode? I've never experienced it but, at the risk of sounding like a trainer retrogrouch, the ERG relationship of power, torque and cadence just seems at odds with on-road physics. It seems... unnatural to me.

Do you have a decent fan? I sweat like mad, but a box fan in a 70° room is okay (no shirt, either). Of course the room is a few degrees warmer by the time I'm done.
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Old 10-27-20, 03:22 PM
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What would happen if I got one of these railbikes and started pedaling on the nearby tracks? Are there railroad police that would arrest me?

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Old 10-27-20, 03:31 PM
  #2853  
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"A Union Pacific publicity photo of 4000-class 4-8-8-4 "Big Boy" #4011 sitting next to "Big Blow" gas-turbine #1 in Cheyenne, Wyoming during the latter's initial westbound run over the Labor Day Weekend of 1958"

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Old 10-27-20, 03:41 PM
  #2854  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
I feel absolutely comfortable spinning in those regions, but for whatever reason, it just puts me closer to the redline; I think at some point I'm just spending too much energy keeping my legs from flying out of orbit.\
A shtarker like you spinning like that?

I spent the season trying to get my cadence under stress down from 100-110 to 85-95, with higher bursts in sprints. I've done it and I think I'm stronger as a result, but there's a lot else going on.
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Old 10-27-20, 04:05 PM
  #2855  
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha
A shtarker like you spinning like that?

I spent the season trying to get my cadence under stress down from 100-110 to 85-95, with higher bursts in sprints. I've done it and I think I'm stronger as a result, but there's a lot else going on.
Prolly why my FTP is lackluster.

Yeah, sprints are a different story - 120 isn't atypical - but I, too, feel like I need to make a point of staying in that 90 region, even at higher outputs. Most of my rides with higher NPs have been at times when I've made of point of keeping my cadence in that area.
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Old 10-27-20, 04:07 PM
  #2856  
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha
A shtarker like you spinning like that?

I spent the season trying to get my cadence under stress down from 100-110 to 85-95, with higher bursts in sprints. I've done it and I think I'm stronger as a result, but there's a lot else going on.
No kidding. This butter churner has to work to keep it above 80 during my Z2 nonsense.
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Old 10-27-20, 04:19 PM
  #2857  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
Do you have a decent fan? I sweat like mad, but a box fan in a 70° room is okay (no shirt, either). Of course the room is a few degrees warmer by the time I'm done.
You need a cold hurricane. The STers have it down to a science. My solution is window open, house fan on, absurdly-powerful Costco fan pointed at me, and that only works when it's below 50* outside. Above that works, but power is capped and dropping. In the old house, the trainer room was at the bottom and well-insulated, and it worked if I just ran the AC full-throttle throughout. The key is to have fresh air with a cross-breeze through the room, and a huge airflow over your body. And it has to be cold. That's why it's only now that I can really do an FTP test.

And outdoors, there's nowhere I can hammer for 20' and be safe.
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Old 10-27-20, 04:19 PM
  #2858  
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Originally Posted by LAJ
No kidding. This butter churner has to work to keep it above 80 during my Z2 nonsense.
Oh, for something like z2, 100 would drive me nuts - high cadence and low power is annoying. I'd probably land at 80 or lower. Actually, looking at a ride with one of my less fit friends, I averaged 76rpm.
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Old 10-27-20, 04:35 PM
  #2859  
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Oh and I find slope mode more comfortable now.
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Old 10-27-20, 04:42 PM
  #2860  
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Originally Posted by LAJ
No kidding. This butter churner has to work to keep it above 80 during my Z2 nonsense.
Originally Posted by WhyFi
Prolly why my FTP is lackluster.

Yeah, sprints are a different story - 120 isn't atypical - but I, too, feel like I need to make a point of staying in that 90 region, even at higher outputs. Most of my rides with higher NPs have been at times when I've made of point of keeping my cadence in that area.
I don't know, but I imagine there are independent neuromuscular and biomechanical optima for each level of resistance and an overall optimal relationship for each individual depending on those factors.

I simply needed leg strength to turn bigger gears before I could slow down.
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Old 10-27-20, 05:02 PM
  #2861  
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I only have a dumb trainer and no power meter, but I did two FTP Ramp tests a week apart , on two different bikes, on Zwift, using Zpower, and speed, cadence and HR sensors and got numbers within 6w of each other. SO then I tried a SST session and crapped out after 10 minutes. So I set it 20W lower, and tried The Gorby, which I successfully completed. So I'm thinking the first number might be too high and the second too low.
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Old 10-27-20, 05:04 PM
  #2862  
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug
You need a cold hurricane. The STers have it down to a science. My solution is window open, house fan on, absurdly-powerful Costco fan pointed at me, and that only works when it's below 50* outside. Above that works, but power is capped and dropping. In the old house, the trainer room was at the bottom and well-insulated, and it worked if I just ran the AC full-throttle throughout. The key is to have fresh air with a cross-breeze through the room, and a huge airflow over your body. And it has to be cold. That's why it's only now that I can really do an FTP test.

And outdoors, there's nowhere I can hammer for 20' and be safe.
Well, hell - I'm probably leaving all kinds of wattz on the table!
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Old 10-27-20, 05:12 PM
  #2863  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
I feel absolutely comfortable spinning in those regions, but for whatever reason, it just puts me closer to the redline; I think at some point I'm just spending too much energy keeping my legs from flying out of orbit.



Interesting. Have you tried with Slope mode? I've never experienced it but, at the risk of sounding like a trainer retrogrouch, the ERG relationship of power, torque and cadence just seems at odds with on-road physics. It seems... unnatural to me.

Do you have a decent fan? I sweat like mad, but a box fan in a 70° room is okay (no shirt, either). Of course the room is a few degrees warmer by the time I'm done.
I have no fan set up, guess that would help!!

I haven’t tried slope
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Old 10-27-20, 05:18 PM
  #2864  
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Originally Posted by Velo Vol
What would happen if I got one of these railbikes and started pedaling on the nearby tracks? Are there railroad police that would arrest me?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8mhIdZoVow
You are a known trouble maker.
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Old 10-27-20, 05:18 PM
  #2865  
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Originally Posted by phrantic09
I have no fan set up, guess that would help!!

I haven’t tried slope
I was amused to see Kickr selling a 'smart fan' for $250, which connects to your trainer to tailor the blowage to the wattage. I have a pair of real cheap Home Depot fans which I consider to be a lot smarter than $250.
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Old 10-27-20, 05:20 PM
  #2866  
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Originally Posted by genejockey
I was amused to see Kickr selling a 'smart fan' for $250, which connects to your trainer to tailor the blowage to the wattage. I have a pair of real cheap Home Depot fans which I consider to be a lot smarter than $250.
I have a great fan that we refer to as the “tower of power”, it’s just sitting in the box in the attic right now
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Old 10-27-20, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Velo Vol
What would happen if I got one of these railbikes and started pedaling on the nearby tracks? Are there railroad police that would arrest me?
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Old 10-27-20, 05:27 PM
  #2868  
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Originally Posted by phrantic09
I have a great fan that we refer to as the “tower of power”, it’s just sitting in the box in the attic right now
I have been impressed by my ability to make my normally cool and fairly dry finished garage hot and swampy after a hour on Zwift. My "Pain Cave" turns into a Pain Swamp.
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Old 10-27-20, 05:31 PM
  #2869  
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Originally Posted by DougRNS
You are a known trouble maker.
There's no signs that say you can't.
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Originally Posted by Velo Vol
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Old 10-27-20, 05:35 PM
  #2870  
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Originally Posted by Velo Vol
There's no signs that say you can't.
Famous last words: "They wouldn't let you do it if it was dangerous!"
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Old 10-27-20, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Velo Vol
What would happen if I got one of these railbikes and started pedaling on the nearby tracks? Are there railroad police that would arrest me?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8mhIdZoVow
What is the point of doing that? You already have a crabon road bike.
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Old 10-27-20, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by DougRNS
What is the point of doing that? You already have a crabon road bike.
But this one corners like it's on rails!
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Old 10-27-20, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
Well, hell - I'm probably leaving all kinds of wattz on the table!
Prolly.

When training for IMChoo the first time, AG would do five-hour trainer rides in the poorly-ventilated apartment we were in. I don't know how she did it, but she did, and I swear she sucked all the oxygen out of the room.
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Old 10-27-20, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
I have been impressed by my ability to make my normally cool and fairly dry finished garage hot and swampy after a hour on Zwift. My "Pain Cave" turns into a Pain Swamp.
Mine definitely isn’t finished

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Old 10-27-20, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
Famous last words: "They wouldn't let you do it if it was dangerous!"
You think I wouldn't hear/see a giant train rumbling toward me?

Originally Posted by DougRNS
What is the point of doing that? You already have a crabon road bike.
Because it would be a nice change of pace to do a "flat" ride without traffic.
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