1-by (1x) to hit entry gravel models?
10-06-20, 11:13 AM
#1
Meow
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1-by (1x) to hit entry gravel models?
I've been eyeing an entry level gravel bike for a while and I'm seeing cool features like tubeless and through-axles on some brands' entry models.
Will 1x drivetrains eventually hit entry models as well?
Will 1x drivetrains eventually hit entry models as well?
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10-06-20, 12:32 PM
#3
Meow
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10-06-20, 12:39 PM
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A 1x is a pretty easy conversion if you find a bike you like that only comes with 2x. If buying from a shop, you could even negotiate the 1x conversion into the sale.
10-06-20, 12:59 PM
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I think this mostly has to do with available components and what you consider to be "entry level".
To really make 1x work, an 11 speed rear is needed. 12 speed is even better. Shimano's lower tier groupsets like Tiagra (10sp), Sora (9sp) and Claris (8sp) don't really make sense as 1x. In the Shimano GRX lineup, only the 800 (Ultegra level) or 600 (105 level) are available as 1x. The GRX 400 (Tiagra level), is a 10 speed and only available with a 2x crankset, but the rear derailleur does have a clutch so it could theoretically be set up as a 1x10 and work fine.
SRAM has the Apex 1x, which is roughly equivalent to Tiagra or 105 and likely the most entry level 1x groupset from a major manufacturer. An alloy gravel bike with Apex 1x is (if you can find one) probably in the neighborhood of $1200-$1500.
To really make 1x work, an 11 speed rear is needed. 12 speed is even better. Shimano's lower tier groupsets like Tiagra (10sp), Sora (9sp) and Claris (8sp) don't really make sense as 1x. In the Shimano GRX lineup, only the 800 (Ultegra level) or 600 (105 level) are available as 1x. The GRX 400 (Tiagra level), is a 10 speed and only available with a 2x crankset, but the rear derailleur does have a clutch so it could theoretically be set up as a 1x10 and work fine.
SRAM has the Apex 1x, which is roughly equivalent to Tiagra or 105 and likely the most entry level 1x groupset from a major manufacturer. An alloy gravel bike with Apex 1x is (if you can find one) probably in the neighborhood of $1200-$1500.
10-06-20, 01:13 PM
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I upgraded a 105 2x10 speed to a Force 1x11 on my CX bike a few years ago. It was a nice upgrade, but I wouldn't describe it as easy. I replaced the RD, cassette, front chainring, chain and shifters, plus new cables. I was fortunate that my ear hub was already 11 speed, so my wheels worked with the new cassette, and my existing crankset worked with a 1x front chainring.
If you're going from 2x11 to 1x11 you can at least use the same shifters. You'll still need a new cassette, rear derailleur and front chainring, and probably a new chain since the length will change.
10-06-20, 01:14 PM
#7
Meow
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I think this mostly has to do with available components and what you consider to be "entry level".
To really make 1x work, an 11 speed rear is needed. 12 speed is even better. Shimano's lower tier groupsets like Tiagra (10sp), Sora (9sp) and Claris (8sp) don't really make sense as 1x. In the Shimano GRX lineup, only the 800 (Ultegra level) or 600 (105 level) are available as 1x. The GRX 400 (Tiagra level), is a 10 speed and only available with a 2x crankset, but the rear derailleur does have a clutch so it could theoretically be set up as a 1x10 and work fine.
SRAM has the Apex 1x, which is roughly equivalent to Tiagra or 105 and likely the most entry level 1x groupset from a major manufacturer. An alloy gravel bike with Apex 1x is (if you can find one) probably in the neighborhood of $1200-$1500.
To really make 1x work, an 11 speed rear is needed. 12 speed is even better. Shimano's lower tier groupsets like Tiagra (10sp), Sora (9sp) and Claris (8sp) don't really make sense as 1x. In the Shimano GRX lineup, only the 800 (Ultegra level) or 600 (105 level) are available as 1x. The GRX 400 (Tiagra level), is a 10 speed and only available with a 2x crankset, but the rear derailleur does have a clutch so it could theoretically be set up as a 1x10 and work fine.
SRAM has the Apex 1x, which is roughly equivalent to Tiagra or 105 and likely the most entry level 1x groupset from a major manufacturer. An alloy gravel bike with Apex 1x is (if you can find one) probably in the neighborhood of $1200-$1500.
I'd love to see 1x11 at $1000 with SRAM/Shimano groupsets.
10-06-20, 01:22 PM
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If you look at the MTB market, 1x setups are trickling down to entry level. Shimano recently introduced a 1x12 Deore groupset. It's all about the speeds.
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10-06-20, 01:35 PM
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I have had a Microshift 2x10 system on one of my bikes for over 3 years with no issues. I did swap out the rear derailleur for a Shimano Deore 9 speed, so I could use an 11/34 cassette. The shifters are a bit louder than the Shimano or SRAM equivalents, but i prefer the loud positive click. Simply put, they shift cleanly when I press the lever. I don't know what more you can ask of a shifter.
10-06-20, 09:05 PM
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Everythibg worked perfectly. ill end up buying some 2x9 shifters in a month or so for a winter trainer bike to zwift on.
The company is legitimate and not a cheap scam.
Oh, and i used Microshift Advent 1x9 to update my wife's old mtb. Its simple and works as expected
10-07-20, 07:44 AM
#11
Meow
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I have had a Microshift 2x10 system on one of my bikes for over 3 years with no issues. I did swap out the rear derailleur for a Shimano Deore 9 speed, so I could use an 11/34 cassette. The shifters are a bit louder than the Shimano or SRAM equivalents, but i prefer the loud positive click. Simply put, they shift cleanly when I press the lever. I don't know what more you can ask of a shifter.
10-07-20, 08:45 AM
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I went out of my way for 2x because I need both range and tight gearing. That and the wear and tear when you go below 14t gets kinda high.
My 2x is simpler, lighter, and more versatile. But if you don't have the need to both grind up steep hills and still ride a paceline at 30mph++, 1x is fine.
The biggest thing keeping them from "entry" is said above by all of MSU's fine advice. It just isn't worth it unless you have at least 11speeds, and entry level often starts with 8speed. Gotta have a reason to upgrade and spend more $$$, right?
10-07-20, 08:59 AM
#13
Meow
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I'm curious as to why you want 1x? It doesn't have any strong advantages (unless you are building a FS MTB and can't use a front detailer).
I went out of my way for 2x because I need both range and tight gearing. That and the wear and tear when you go below 14t gets kinda high.
My 2x is simpler, lighter, and more versatile. But if you don't have the need to both grind up steep hills and still ride a paceline at 30mph++, 1x is fine.
The biggest thing keeping them from "entry" is said above by all of MSU's fine advice. It just isn't worth it unless you have at least 11speeds, and entry level often starts with 8speed. Gotta have a reason to upgrade and spend more $$$, right?
I went out of my way for 2x because I need both range and tight gearing. That and the wear and tear when you go below 14t gets kinda high.
My 2x is simpler, lighter, and more versatile. But if you don't have the need to both grind up steep hills and still ride a paceline at 30mph++, 1x is fine.
The biggest thing keeping them from "entry" is said above by all of MSU's fine advice. It just isn't worth it unless you have at least 11speeds, and entry level often starts with 8speed. Gotta have a reason to upgrade and spend more $$$, right?
I have a hybrid now but I want to get a gravel as my next bike but that won't be for at least another year or two.
My ideal set up would a 1x11 but it's not the biggest deal, but it'd be very compelling for me because of the simplicity.
1x11, tubeless at around $1000-1200 USD would be great so wondering if the trend is moving that way.
10-07-20, 09:26 AM
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Basically, you need a wide range cassette, and a rear derailleur that will accommodate your range - preferably with a clutch.
Realistically, you don't have to shift the front if you don't want to. ;-)
I tend to ride in a 36t chain ring when I'm solo (and don't worry about being dropped over 30mph), and a 46t chainring when I'm doing a fast group ride (although those of us on 2x will drop the 1x people, so we'll typically regroup and let them catch up).
1x is simple if you are flexible and not too anal. I love hearing (techie) 1x people talk about changing chain rings, trying to figure out what gives them the best compromise between climbing and speed, and what chain ring they need for a specific ride. Some people have a climbing cassette, and a close ratio speed cassette for faster road rides (easier if you have 2 wheels).
Realistically, you don't have to shift the front if you don't want to. ;-)
I tend to ride in a 36t chain ring when I'm solo (and don't worry about being dropped over 30mph), and a 46t chainring when I'm doing a fast group ride (although those of us on 2x will drop the 1x people, so we'll typically regroup and let them catch up).
1x is simple if you are flexible and not too anal. I love hearing (techie) 1x people talk about changing chain rings, trying to figure out what gives them the best compromise between climbing and speed, and what chain ring they need for a specific ride. Some people have a climbing cassette, and a close ratio speed cassette for faster road rides (easier if you have 2 wheels).
10-07-20, 01:31 PM
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Basically, you need a wide range cassette, and a rear derailleur that will accommodate your range - preferably with a clutch.
Realistically, you don't have to shift the front if you don't want to. ;-)
I tend to ride in a 36t chain ring when I'm solo (and don't worry about being dropped over 30mph), and a 46t chainring when I'm doing a fast group ride (although those of us on 2x will drop the 1x people, so we'll typically regroup and let them catch up).
1x is simple if you are flexible and not too anal. I love hearing (techie) 1x people talk about changing chain rings, trying to figure out what gives them the best compromise between climbing and speed, and what chain ring they need for a specific ride. Some people have a climbing cassette, and a close ratio speed cassette for faster road rides (easier if you have 2 wheels).
Realistically, you don't have to shift the front if you don't want to. ;-)
I tend to ride in a 36t chain ring when I'm solo (and don't worry about being dropped over 30mph), and a 46t chainring when I'm doing a fast group ride (although those of us on 2x will drop the 1x people, so we'll typically regroup and let them catch up).
1x is simple if you are flexible and not too anal. I love hearing (techie) 1x people talk about changing chain rings, trying to figure out what gives them the best compromise between climbing and speed, and what chain ring they need for a specific ride. Some people have a climbing cassette, and a close ratio speed cassette for faster road rides (easier if you have 2 wheels).
I favor 1x on CX race bikes because it is one less thing to worry about on race day. It sounds silly... I mean, how hard is shifting a FD? But but when your HR is pegged and you're trying to hold onto someone's wheel coming out of a turn onto a long straight into the wind, and hammering... remembering to shift your FD back into the big ring isn't always top-of-mind. It's also one less thing to clog up with mud, and the clutched RD prevents chain slap and drops.
For my CX bikes, I run my 1x setup with either a 40T or 42T front chainring and an 11-32 or 11-34 cassette. This is gearing that works great for CX racing, and this same setup is workable for road riding, but not ideal. Most of my riding is on flat roads, so I'm rarely spinning out on 40/11 gearing on solo road rides, but it's not enough gear for fast groups. For pure road riding I'd much prefer 2x.
For gravel riding, I could go either way. I'm not racing gravel or riding anything with big climbs/descents, so 1x works fine. A gravel bike with 2x will be more versatile though, which is really what this type of bike is for. With a 46/36 crank and two wheelsets you can go from gravel grinder to a road bike in a matter of minutes.
10-07-20, 02:12 PM
#16
Meow
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Gahhh I hate how I can only post a max of 5 posts in a 24 hour period until I have 10 posts
I'm doing pure casual riding and I find I don't use the full range with a 2x anyway but I haven't tried a 1x11 yet to see if it's actually all that sufficient for me. I just like the sound of the simplicity of it, so far.
If given the chance right now to buy two identical bikes but one has a 2x and one has a 1x, then I _think_ I'd take the 1x.
But you guys raise some good points about the range.
I'm doing pure casual riding and I find I don't use the full range with a 2x anyway but I haven't tried a 1x11 yet to see if it's actually all that sufficient for me. I just like the sound of the simplicity of it, so far.
If given the chance right now to buy two identical bikes but one has a 2x and one has a 1x, then I _think_ I'd take the 1x.
But you guys raise some good points about the range.
10-07-20, 03:23 PM
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In the UK, at least, there are some gravel bikes with 1x drivetrains. There's the Triban RC 120 which has the Microshift 10 speed for £499, which I've been looking at hard for a while. Triban do a lot of entry level bikes with a 1x for the ease of use factor, since you only need to worry about going up or down a gear, and not bother with 2x chainring thing where to go up another gear you need to change the front cog up one and the read cog down a few.
Interestingly, I also found a Genesis Flyer 2021 which is a single speed gravel bike (42x17T).
So they definitely exist.
Interestingly, I also found a Genesis Flyer 2021 which is a single speed gravel bike (42x17T).
So they definitely exist.
10-07-20, 03:25 PM
#18
Meow
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In the UK, at least, there are some gravel bikes with 1x drivetrains. There's the Triban RC 120 which has the Microshift 10 speed for £499, which I've been looking at hard for a while. Triban do a lot of entry level bikes with a 1x for the ease of use factor, since you only need to worry about going up or down a gear, and not bother with 2x chainring thing where to go up another gear you need to change the front cog up one and the read cog down a few.
Interestingly, I also found a Genesis Flyer 2021 which is a single speed gravel bike (42x17T).
So they definitely exist.
Interestingly, I also found a Genesis Flyer 2021 which is a single speed gravel bike (42x17T).
So they definitely exist.
10-08-20, 07:34 AM
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Basically, you need a wide range cassette, and a rear derailleur that will accommodate your range - preferably with a clutch.
Realistically, you don't have to shift the front if you don't want to. ;-)
I tend to ride in a 36t chain ring when I'm solo (and don't worry about being dropped over 30mph), and a 46t chainring when I'm doing a fast group ride (although those of us on 2x will drop the 1x people, so we'll typically regroup and let them catch up).
1x is simple if you are flexible and not too anal. I love hearing (techie) 1x people talk about changing chain rings, trying to figure out what gives them the best compromise between climbing and speed, and what chain ring they need for a specific ride. Some people have a climbing cassette, and a close ratio speed cassette for faster road rides (easier if you have 2 wheels).
Realistically, you don't have to shift the front if you don't want to. ;-)
I tend to ride in a 36t chain ring when I'm solo (and don't worry about being dropped over 30mph), and a 46t chainring when I'm doing a fast group ride (although those of us on 2x will drop the 1x people, so we'll typically regroup and let them catch up).
1x is simple if you are flexible and not too anal. I love hearing (techie) 1x people talk about changing chain rings, trying to figure out what gives them the best compromise between climbing and speed, and what chain ring they need for a specific ride. Some people have a climbing cassette, and a close ratio speed cassette for faster road rides (easier if you have 2 wheels).
FWIW, my 1x can keep up with the 30 mph pace line...
10-08-20, 07:43 AM
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FWIW, my 1x can keep up with the 30 mph pace line...
10-08-20, 07:48 AM
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I’m curious. Do you ever feel the need to shift the chainring in a cross race? I leave it in 36t (which would probably get me over 25mph if I needed), but I’m rarely over 15mph, unless I’m bombing down a hill (which typically are pretty rough), in which case I’m desperately trying to get my heart rate down in a few seconds of respite. When I’m CX racing in a 36t chainring, I’m more interested in having a better low end than a better high end. If I used a 40t, I would need a bigger cassette, and at that point I’m starting to get too big a jump between low gears anyway. Just wondering what your experience was…
Totally agree with all of this.
I favor 1x on CX race bikes because it is one less thing to worry about on race day. It sounds silly... I mean, how hard is shifting a FD? But but when your HR is pegged and you're trying to hold onto someone's wheel coming out of a turn onto a long straight into the wind, and hammering... remembering to shift your FD back into the big ring isn't always top-of-mind. It's also one less thing to clog up with mud, and the clutched RD prevents chain slap and drops.
For my CX bikes, I run my 1x setup with either a 40T or 42T front chainring and an 11-32 or 11-34 cassette. This is gearing that works great for CX racing, and this same setup is workable for road riding, but not ideal. Most of my riding is on flat roads, so I'm rarely spinning out on 40/11 gearing on solo road rides, but it's not enough gear for fast groups. For pure road riding I'd much prefer 2x.
For gravel riding, I could go either way. I'm not racing gravel or riding anything with big climbs/descents, so 1x works fine. A gravel bike with 2x will be more versatile though, which is really what this type of bike is for. With a 46/36 crank and two wheelsets you can go from gravel grinder to a road bike in a matter of minutes.
I favor 1x on CX race bikes because it is one less thing to worry about on race day. It sounds silly... I mean, how hard is shifting a FD? But but when your HR is pegged and you're trying to hold onto someone's wheel coming out of a turn onto a long straight into the wind, and hammering... remembering to shift your FD back into the big ring isn't always top-of-mind. It's also one less thing to clog up with mud, and the clutched RD prevents chain slap and drops.
For my CX bikes, I run my 1x setup with either a 40T or 42T front chainring and an 11-32 or 11-34 cassette. This is gearing that works great for CX racing, and this same setup is workable for road riding, but not ideal. Most of my riding is on flat roads, so I'm rarely spinning out on 40/11 gearing on solo road rides, but it's not enough gear for fast groups. For pure road riding I'd much prefer 2x.
For gravel riding, I could go either way. I'm not racing gravel or riding anything with big climbs/descents, so 1x works fine. A gravel bike with 2x will be more versatile though, which is really what this type of bike is for. With a 46/36 crank and two wheelsets you can go from gravel grinder to a road bike in a matter of minutes.
10-08-20, 08:09 AM
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just about any bike can be converted to 1x for less than $50 by just replacing the front rings with a single ring and removing the front derailer. it depends on the gear range you want though. merely replacing the front rings means your existing cassette might not be enough.
I converted a 2x10 to 1x10. went from 48/34 front and 11-32 rear to a 38 front and kept the 11-32 rear and never missed the high and low ends of the range. then I removed the rear and just started riding 1x1 with 38/16 and didn't miss anything either, but that's me grinding the hills and spinning the flats with a big grin on my face because I don't have to worry about derailers at all anymore.
I converted a 2x10 to 1x10. went from 48/34 front and 11-32 rear to a 38 front and kept the 11-32 rear and never missed the high and low ends of the range. then I removed the rear and just started riding 1x1 with 38/16 and didn't miss anything either, but that's me grinding the hills and spinning the flats with a big grin on my face because I don't have to worry about derailers at all anymore.
10-08-20, 09:13 AM
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I’m curious. Do you ever feel the need to shift the chainring in a cross race? I leave it in 36t (which would probably get me over 25mph if I needed), but I’m rarely over 15mph, unless I’m bombing down a hill (which typically are pretty rough), in which case I’m desperately trying to get my heart rate down in a few seconds of respite. When I’m CX racing in a 36t chainring, I’m more interested in having a better low end than a better high end. If I used a 40t, I would need a bigger cassette, and at that point I’m starting to get too big a jump between low gears anyway. Just wondering what your experience was…
I see on the gearing calculator that a 36x11 is good for 25mph and I doubt I spent much time above that even on fast tracks, so maybe it's more psychological than anything, worrying about running out of gears. I was also taught (right or wrong) to avoid using the small/small combo to minimize chain drops, so I would typically upshift the front when I was still in the 12 or 13 cog.
I've never noticed the gear jumps on 1x with an 11-32 or 11-34 to be a factor for CX racing. I can see this being more of an issue if you need to run a larger cassette to deal with actual climbing where you want more spinny gears. Around here we just dismount and run, because our longest "hills" are like 100 feet long.
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10-09-20, 08:42 AM
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10-12-20, 08:17 PM
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I recently put together some $750 hybrids with 1X. Haven't really been paying attention to what the 1X gravel bikes I have been working on cost, but I don't think it's that much. $1200 Kona MTB have 1X. I think all I have put together are Kona, Salsa, and Surly. Probably should pay more attention.
