rekmeyata

Not sure what condition your Wrights was in, nor do I recall the ingredients of Proofide other then bees wax, but if a saddle is severly dried cracked and aged a little neets oil will help it along. Perhaps Proofide would do the same, I don't know I've never restored an old leather saddle. But all of this has got me interested in finding a old dried up cracked leather saddle just to play with it and see what works and what doesn't; biggest problem is finding one!

djb

damn, I have been discovered just as I was about to go to the bank with my Brooks 500 pound shill money for supporting their saddles and snakeoil sales!
Gotta love a comment like Macs. They are just bike seats, I got my first one this summer, followed what they said about putting their goop on, it became much more comfortable after about 100 miles and is more and more comfortable. Sure I spent $10 bucks on the tin of goop, but it will last for a bunch of years. As I have said on other threads about comments similiar to yours, hell, I probably saved $10 in gas because I used my bike more in a week rather than taking hte car to go somewhere, or I drove easy on the highway going to see family out of town and not at 75mph; or didnt buy a Big Mac or two; or whatever......
Really, its $10 we are talking here (maybe $8 US?) Its gonna last a few years, 2, 3, 4, 5 I dunno? The Big Mac Meal Deals will only last til it drops out of us into the toilet.

oh, and to the OP, neat story and nice to see the photos of before and after. I have used Snowax on hiking boots and have been impressed how well it protects the leather, so whatever you use on this Brooks of yours, it was neat to see how teh Neatsfoot stuff helped it. I would think though that now it would be prudent to use more of a waxy based thing to keep it "tough". Cant remember if you said thats what you will do, but it does seem like good common sense not to soften it up more, especially around the rivets where the biggest stress is. Hope it lasts a good long time and more importantly is comfortable.
Here in this part of Canada, a new B17 was $90 or $95 I think when I got mine this summer. Okay Okay, $100 or $105 with the snake-oil.

rootboy 

WoooWEEE!
This is one feisty thread ! My two cents. Nothing wrong with oiling an old, dry saddle up a bit, before you start with the wax. I use something called Dr. Jackson's Hide Rejuvenator for the first two applications on a dry saddle, to feed the leather, then wax treatment. By the way, I had a brand new B-17 with that offset flank thing. I had to ditch it as it turned out to be very uncomfortable on the inner thigh. OK
Root

interested

Perhaps people like me warns people of mistreating their Brooks saddles because you can actually ruin a B-17 by using mink oil or other similar products. You may have the opinion that using oil products on leather saddles can't do any harm, but you are simply flat out wrong about that.

Too much oil on the tensioned leather and it may stretch way, way too much and become saggy. I really speak of personal experience here.

Yes, some people get away using very oily products on their Brooks, at least for a while, or at least because they think that the hammock shape sagging is a sign of a broken in saddle, that doesn't mean it is a good idea. The oil clogs the pores too so the saddle doesn't "breathe" as well too. In fact, too much oil may make leather both crack and rot over time.

People think they are "nice" to their leather saddle when they rub it with some "conditioner" product. But in fact the best way to preserve leather is to use nothing at all. And if you want to condition the leather for some reason (aesthetics, waterproofing), use as little as possible. This is why Brooks also recommend using Proofide in small amounts and with long intervals. (Why don't Brooks recommending using lots of Proofide as often as possible if it was all a sinister plot to make money?).

Proofide isn't anything special a such. All the ingredients inside is listed on the lid and anybody can make a copy of it if they care. (Tallow, Cod oil, Vegetable oil, Paraffin wax, Beeswax, Citronella oil) It isn't even that expensive and a little tin last very long time.
I didn't buy Proofide when I got my first B-17 simply because I couldn't get where I shopped. So I bought some mink oil and used that. I only applied it one time but the saddle started to sag so much that I had to use the tension nut. Then I bought a wax based product, but it was hard to apply properly without leaving white wax streaks. At that time I had spend more money on those two products than a single tin of Proofide. So I bought a Proofide tin on the net (a small one) +5 years later I am still not half through that tin, even though I have 2-3 B-17 saddles.

The point is that recommending Proofide is a economical and safe option when used as instructed, but recommending other products may not be. This is not as vast conspiracy cabal, but just simple facts.

--
Regards

rekmeyata

That was interesting Interested! Sorry I had to write that....anywho, on my B17 I've had for 5 years and the Swift I've had for 12 years I've only applied Proofide once every other year, but I do apply neutral Kiwi shoe paste wax about 4 times a year. So far both saddles have lasted and look really good. Personally I think the shoe polish works the best of any treatment you could put on it. But I put such a small amount of Proofide on that I still have the original tin I bought when I got the Swift! I'm not sure if I'm underapplying the Proofide, but I do know there are no cracks on either saddle and I've only had to tension the Swift once just last year a quarter of a turn, and the B17 not at all.

Personally I think people over goop these saddles then can't figure out why it didn't last. I know people who had their Brooks saddles for more then 20 years and still look great, in fact it was a guy I knew who has had his for 28 years that taught me how to care for mine. His philosophy of sparingly using Proofide and using Kiwi Shoe Wax for a protectant "seems" to be working...at least so far. I know his B17 saddle still looks great.

Brooks saddles may be expensive initially, but with factory recommended care it should last at least 20 years, which means in the long run it will be cheaper then buying a foam over plastic saddle you'll be replacing at least every other year due to the foam breaking down...unless you need to have a have lighter saddle because your weight conscious.

djb

and in the end, all any cyclist who bikes a fair amount is to want their bum to be comfortable. I have used all kinds of saddles over the years and they worked fairly well, I used to do 3-4 week long trips on a gel saddle and it was fine, never ruined a trip. This summers purchase of a B17 showed me how a diff type of saddle that one does have to be more careful with (especially concerning rain) can be quite a bit more comfortable than what I previously thought was comfortable.
Yes we have to carefull and have a plastic bag with us if it rains, but frankly, as a B17 works great for my backside (and once I figured out the proper position for it which had caused problems) so I am happy.

And it has gotten me riding more, so less using the car, Im more fit and hopefully the thing will continue to be a good fit for me for many years.

rootboy 

And, as Interested's post shows, Proofhide DOES contain oils. Three of them, if my count is correct. I never put anything but Proofhide on my new Brooks Pro, in the 70's, but it was a new saddle. As for trying to restore an old, dried out leather saddle, mink oil might not be the best choice, but a little "feed" to the leather doesn't hurt as long as used sparingly. But Proofhide will probably do that as well as anything ...since it contains oils.

interested

Yes leather has oil in it. If it disappears the leather becomes brittle and dry. Adding oil into the leather again may restore it to some degree. The problem is that too much oil is much more damaging than not using any oil. Using the wrong kind of oil, or oil with additives that harm leather by drying it out, can also be a problem.

Proofide contains oils and by over applying it, the saddle can become saggy too.
But the good thing about Proofide is that the wax, tallow, oil mixture makes it very easy add a tiny little bit and buff it all over the saddle, so the oil is spread in an extremely thin layer. There may be other products just as good as Proofide, but there certainly are products and procedures that can harm leather saddles. So Proofide is a good and safe choice for maintenance when used as directed.

For restoring an old dried out leather saddle, some Neatsfoot oil like the OP used may be a good choice and safe when used in limited quantities in thin layers, since it doesn't contain damaging petro-chemical additives. It is worth noting however, that eg. horse riders also use it to make leather soft and pliable, something you don't want to do with a bicycle saddle.

Apparently the best procedure is to apply the oil on the "flesh" side (underside) when the leather is damp to ensure the best internal distribution of the oil.
Here is a longer explanation:
https://www.jarnaginco.com/leather%20preservation.htm

But again, one should remember that a bicycle saddle have other requirements than leather belts, boots or leather bound books.

--
Regards

wwwoodard

So now after some years later, how does the saddle look and perform. I have a couple in the same condition and want to make a decision on which direction to go. Thanks!

djb

some years is ten years. Who knows if the person originally here will still be around.
Its funny to read my comments from 10 years ago, and since then, I've bought three other leather Brooks seats.
Woodard, I know you are looking at an old ratty one, but I would go with beeswax stuff , not any oil type like neatsfoot oil, as it will risk softening the leather too much. Warming your old saddles first in the oven will help with getting the Proofide or beeswax only stuff to soak in.
Just remember, you absolutely dont want to oversoften the leather, or it will stretch and sag too much. My now many years old Brooks have very little sag, and with reasonable mileage on them too, so you dont want to go down that route. Once its oversoftened, you can't turn the clock back and unsoften them--although again, I realize you have some old ratty ones.
photos?

wwwoodard

The seats are virtually identical in appearance to the one he posted. One is a Brooks Pro on my old Raleigh International purchased on the early 70's and the other is a Brooks Pro with the buffed rivets on a Raleigh Professional that I purchased from a friend that I rode with back in the day. Neither of the saddles have ever been conditioned and are in fair condition but as with the posted photos, there are some tiny cracks around the rivets. I did get some proofide but the seat on the International, in particular, seems really dry and stiff. Thought maybe using the Neatsfoot oil on the underside, but will take any advice. Thanks!

djb

It's been many years since I warmed one up in oven, so don't recall temp,but I must have put it very low, 150, 175 ? And hand checked it regularly..
Re around rivets, I'd be very wary of softening leather at these tension points. From using snowseal on leather hiking boots a long time ago, I suspect it would be safe, as it seems to toughen up the leather. I recall putting the thick snowseal on and then using a hairdryer to melt it.

anyway, good luck, and proceed carefully. Maybe some tests on a small area would be good?
cheers

wwwoodard

Thanks for the assist. It is a tough line to walk. Clearly, the seats are dry and need some help, but have to be careful not to go overboard. Not that many people with experience on seats few still use!

Germany_chris

I use a hair dryer and Proofide..

Warn the saddle up, lather the bottom hit it again with the hair drier then move to the top. I treat my saddle the same way I treated my boot in the Army always warm up the leather.

Wileyone 

Anyone use Dubbin or Mink oil?

Davet

Mink Oil is a big no-no as it has ingredients that allow the leather fibers To ‘relax’, stretch. Because Brooks saddles are hung from both ends on a frame, Mink Oil can create rapid stretching when the riders weight is suspended.

cutdbeard

I suggest you use a leather wax or leather preserver for it.

Bill in VA

I tried that with a French Ideale 39 that was rock hard new in 1973 and rock hard every year since despite many, many applications of the Proofhide and hair dryer method.from day 1. I also tried the "French Trick" of using a broomstick to wack it (off the bike of course) after the Proofhidde soaked in. It softened a little bit, but not enough to not feel like a medieval torture device.

Germany_chris

I don't think anything can help if the saddle gets too dry..

djb

Hey woodward, something else to mention is that i seem to recall that pro models use thicker leather than regular, and that it's possible even more so back in the day.

this may be a factor with your two saddles, ie real tough buggers less prone to stretching than a new regular b17.

frogman

OK, So we don't want our Brooks saddle to get too dry. How often should we do the Proofide treatment ?

djb

with fairly regular riding, mine have only had the smallest amount reapplied once a year or two and they look fine.

frogman

OK, thanks. I have been going about three or so years. I take care of the other maintenance but forget about the saddles.

Cyclist0108

djb

But I always use a rain cover for riding in the rain and plastic bags when locked up outside, so this probably helps.