furiousferret

I've never been a big KOM guy, but then again, I'm too slow to get KOMs around here. I only count legit strips of road that are KOM worthy, not Bob's driveway, an obscure route, or something where you have to run a red light to get.

Actually, I do take some joy that I have the fastest 45+ time up some hills.

big john

Should be about 7.5 mph if the 13.51 time is right. On second thought the whole thing is screwed up.

Doge

Don't get me wrong, a big prestigious race is better to win. Local races are just as variable based on who shows up. It depends on the class too. Is winning a race when the competition is gone, better than a group KOM comparing over time?
Group KOMs need strategy. You have to get the group going, then be sure you are at the back at the start, off the front at the finish. The big KOMs, the leaders know it is a race. Some, started recruiting the big boys weeks before, so day of, everyone, or the contenders know. There are also pocket KOMs where a pro may have it, not post, until another pro does. Then upload.
Phil Gaimon, Chris Horner played that on a Palomar segment. Chris took his KOM down, so not to be seen beaten by Phil. Phil gets KOM. Chris sees it is slower than his and reposts. Those guys are serious, and folks know Phil's Koms better than his race wins. One of Phil's last USA big race he beat a junior, who likely would have beaten him had the gears been the same. Hollow compared to a solid KOM IMO.

Doge

no

TMonk

Not a huge Strava guy, but I am stoked on this:



325,438 attempts (I'm David)



We snagged this when preparing for SCNCA TTT champs earlier in the year (which we won). wktmeow was part of the team and would have been here too but he flatted a tubular before a planned full 40k mock TTT practice (yikes). We got him back to the car, looked at eachother and said: "**** it, let's get this KOM".

topflightpro

And I would have won if I hadn't DNF'd.

Cypress

What is the profile of this segment? 621W for almost 14 mins seems a bit...high?

Doge

It took finding the right WT pros who were showing up, talking it us a couple weeks and getting the others there and then making everyone sure they knew it was a big deal. Whipping a group into a frenzy is not easy. Then hiding in the back after whipping them up and making it to the front without anyone noticing is also a trick.

Takes more to win that Cooks KOM than winning a RR. Which is why many more RR and crits were won than 100K attempts KOMs.

Doge

Estimated power. I expect it was around 450W. He didn't use a PM, so don't know.
https://www.strava.com/segments/709325

Cypress

Hm. 450W might be a bit of a stretch as well... Nobody that used a power meter went over 313W. I'm guessing the high est wattage is due to a decent tailwind...not to take anything away though.

Doge

I guess my point is that classic USAC (formerly USCF) local racing being the most significant thing has changed - for the amateurs at least. Fondos do well. You can qualify for UCI worlds doing a fondo and get the WC UCI jersey from fondos. USAC has partially destroyed the joy of local racing by not allowing juniors to compete on the same equipment as the adults. Strava - and non-USAC Fondos and group rides/throw downs allow them to be equal. I say it is more pure because a USAC race does not allow an equal playing field to all racers. Strava does.

Doge

Might be. I know FTP is about 400 only because the other guys are same weight (~145#) and do about 400/hour - going faster. But just a guess.
More Strava ...

big john

Since I am obviously Strava ignorant, maybe you could explain the first post. It seems Junior bagged a KOM in Santiago Canyon, a 1.8 mile climb @3%. Where does the 13:51 figure in? Was that the whole ride and the climb segment was 5:00 minutes?
Where does the 32mph come from? tia

Doge

Post 4309.

Doge

More detail... I was suggesting that local USAC races are often not as important as significant Strava KOMs or Fondos or Group rides...

Because:
-Strava covers multiple events over time.
-You get a record.
-A race is often about who shows up then, and Strava eliminates that. It is who showed up ever.
-Strava does not limit one group of competitors equipment, where USAC limits junior gears. This last decade in the USA, many juniors are as fast as the pros.

TheKillerPenguin

Oh I see, those are screenshots of two different koms. I read it as 32mph up a 3% grade.

topflightpro

I'll dispute this. Strava records only people who post to Strava - I've had an account for 6 or 7 years and only started posting recently, not that I would have any KOMs - and who have ridden that segment. It's not that different from a race in that regard. And as you've noted, it often takes a concerted effort to get the right people on the ride at the right time for someone to steal a KOM, which again means it's often about who shows up.

ntnyln

I'll second this. KOM's are mostly about raw horsepower or as @topflightpro pointed out, some thoughtful coordination. Racing and beating those who show up more often than not takes racecraft and skill. The strongest rider doesn't always win. It all comes down to which you value more. Proving you are the cream of the 1% or being able to maximize what you have to still win despite not being part of the 1% of the 1%.

gsteinb

all tests are ultimately flawed

burnthesheep

I just had a former pro show up to the LBS by my house, jump on an e-bike, and proceed to go take my segment..........by a whopping 2 seconds. The next time I was in the shop they made sure to tell me all about it.

Dude is foooked when I go back with the TT bike and give it over 600 for the segment to steal it back. 2 second? Wonder if he was on an e-bike while wearing foam flip flops or something.

All I know the dude might be a 300lb slob nowadays and only used to race as a pro. Who knows. I don't care. All I wanna do is send a former pro who was on an e-bike an "uh-oh" email courtesy of Strava. Lol.

Also, going to work for a guy on the team for a couple crits in exchange for getting the go-ahead in the road race. Knows his stuff for the crit, so a great guy to work for. He said he couldn't turn down the use of fire power for the road event.

iTT the 2nd, crit 8th, RR the 29th.

Hermes

I ride that route all the time. I looked at the exact course and it was done on a freeway - Highway 5. In California, cyclists are not allowed on freeways unless there is no other route available. In this case, the other route from Oceanside to Los Pulgas Road is through Camp Pendleton. So there is a stretch of freeway where cyclists are allowed since the base is controlled by the Marines.

I have ridden on that stretch of freeway once on the tandem with my wife. It was awful. The speed limit is 65 mph but traffic moves at 75-80 mph and of course, sometime more. Traffic is generally heavy but varies. There is a lot of debris on the side of the road that you do not see in a car but riding a bike I was constantly dodging stuff...large stuff. The noise is amazing as trucks and busses wiz by a 70 mph.

Traffic creates a significant tail wind and after a track passes you, you get sucked along for awhile. Also, the prevailing wind is a cross head wind. And there are days where the wind is from the south. So if one gets a day with fast traffic and a southern wind, one can generate a lot of speed without a lot of power.

That does not in any way diminish holding a leader spot just some context for what kind of power one would need under different conditions on this route. Also, there are few cyclists on this route since most go through the marine base and I have not seen or heard of a group ride on the freeway section.

For some more context, Thurlow Rodgers, olympic cyclist, active racer, is in 6th position 58 seconds behind Daniel. He is 11 years younger than me.

Doge

I am not sure what you are disputing.
As Strava only reports those who post, a race is based on those that start.

There may be someone better someplace else that didn't race, or didn't post Strava. Same thing. I think, it is more likely someone better is not racing, than someone better didn't post.
A "true" pro may not post, but sure seems to me people post their top 10 Strava's - unless of course they were expected to be #1 and weren't.

Doge

I guess that is kinda the point. Strava records a kid vs Thurlow, vs Amber Neban vs ... A groups that would never race together in a USAC race, only a ride...
Cam Wurf set two Kona records on Strava. He didn't win the Iron man. I have no idea who did (without looking). Most cyclist know about those records. Most don't know about his GT races, or his rowing world championships. Strava matters.

burnthesheep

I do still take the Strava fun with a grain of salt, even for uphill stuff.

I’m top 10 on pretty much every hill that matters in town, and KOM on one of them. I’ve got really good 1min and 2min power for short stuff.

But,

I have no idea if the others were just hitting the hill a little bit or giving it a “Gaimon” kom effort. Or I had a windy day perhaps.

Cause those boys locally in the top 10 would tear me up in a weeknight worlds ride or a long hill.

Also, some of the big watts on Strava get “found out” to be at high kilograms if you race Zwift using the zwift power website.

Some guys with 400w at 20min on there are still B riders due to weight. I’d imagine Strava segments may be similar.

We have a few short 2min students in town with over 500w on them. Big boys.

TMonk

Sometimes I think that I might have a good CdA in my standard road, track and TT positions. Like, some of these guys are monstrously strong from a raw wattage perspective, but I can compete with them in flat/high-speed mass start races and roll a break (or TTT) with some pretty tough guys at high speed.

To put that in perspective I'm only 145 lbs (at race weight) and decently strong, but some of these bigger guys have like 50+ watts on me z1-5. At ~12 years of competitive cycling, you'd think I'd have this figured out by now .

Would be super interesting to pay for some wind tunnel time at some point, just to try things out and get some data. A grand (or so I'm told) is a bit of coin to drop, but it's not like I haven't spent that much on cycling before.