awac

A eBay win for £2.20, and £35 for postage (which obviously they packed with love after such a big payout….notice dent and scratch on top tube, hmmm). It was a roughly bike shaped object with most bits in the grainy, blurry photo. A gamble eh? Well, faint heart never won fair bargain…lol. I could see what looked like forged drop outs, so lets give it a go!

I am thinking 1978-79, but what model! Grand sprint, Super sprint, Grand touring?

First, Simplex drop outs on Motobécane (stamp1884)? They even had the delrin inserts in place! I can’t place the model from that, I didn’t think MB used them.
Rear derailleur cable braze on near Simplex drop out (Peugeot put theirs further away).
Painted with the finest rattle can matt black with no regard to primer over a new brilliant blue which I thnk came to MB in 1977?
Top tube braze ons came in 1978.
No braze on shifters which came around 1980-ish?
Bottom bracket braze on cable guides.
Bocama lugs.
BB stamped 3109 M7.
Rear brake bridge has 85 stamp.
Top of seat tube has 74 stamped.
Forks have transfer 28-19 so low carbon steel, stamped 827 (1982 July?) same colour, but are they from the frame which is very light (will weigh later).
Swiss bottom bracket, Japanese made.

Came with the following bits.
Pair of Weinmann 500 quick release brakes.
Silstar SR crank. French pedal threads.
Pair of wheels both Mavic MA2 rims. Front Shimano 600 hub code FB (1981 February) and rear Normandy dated 88. 5 speed freewheel.

Quill stem atax, too my eye looks slightly bent, and either side of the clamp has been filed away slightly, what for, who knows. The toothed washer on the head stock has a fracture on the flat part, still together mind. The head stock/top tube lug when steel brushed seemed to have no blue paint underneath and a little braze showing. I am wondering if it has had a bump. The fork seems to have a slight bow, I will check all these for alignment later when space on my stand becomes avialable!

The story from the seller is that he and his parents used to live in France and in 2011 his father bought this and they never got round to doing anything with it. Someone has used a puller on the NDS crank arm, you know the signs…..

Photos in next post, give me 10 mins. So go on then, which frame had Simplex dropouts or were they running out of stock so just popped to the local Simplex shop and bought some? Lol.

awac

Light frame with Simplex

Simplex dropout

Swiss thread

Stamp 3109 M7

Stamp 86

Cable braze ons

Cable braze on2

Head stock/top tube bocama lugs

Seat stay

Stamp 1884

awac

Stamp 74

28-19 forks

Stamp 827

Slight bend

juvela

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Charles Wahl

I would go through the 1983 – 1984 catalogs, and see if you can find that color. Could be Mirage or even Le Champion. I believe the fourreaux decal means; high quality, and that the tubing is Columbus. See this thread: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...id-please.html . Motobecane definitely used those dropouts in the last years, because I have a 1984 Team Champion frame with them.

awac

Thank you Charles. I did not think the Le Champion had eyes on the dropouts? The blue came in around 1977, they used it on quite a few models. I will weigh it soon and take some tube measurements to try and narrow it down.

Charles Wahl

You got me there; my eyes did not see the eyelets. Definitely not Le Champion then.

oneclick 

Is there a number stamped on the inside drive-side dropout?

awac

I will get my jewelers glasses on later and look carefully.

due ruote 

I am guessing this is a model that wasn't exported to the US.
That looks like Moto brilliant blue for sure. I have a '78 Team Champion in that color, but it was also used on the Nomade and Super Mirage that year. I don't think your bike is any of those.
I happen to think it's a great color, and apparently Motobecane did too, as they used it for several years on various models exported to the States, and likely others that were marketed in Europe.

https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/Motobecane/

awac

I like the blue as well, I wish someone had left it rather than try to paint it black! In fact every French bike I seem to keep is blue, lol! Grand record, Nomade, Nomade spirit & Interclub in ‘79 also listed as “new blue”. The team champion was “brilliant blue”. In ‘78 they were all “brilliant blue”.

awac

Frame and forks weighed on bathroom scales (they have never seen something that light….lol). Frame approx 2kg and forks just under 1kg.

oneclick 

2kg for a frame is light.
1kg for a fork is not.
You need something more precise.
Buy a cheap digital luggage scale.

Chombi1 

There were a lot of di.ilar metallic blue bikes from Peugeot too, but most, if not all of them had plainer Bocama lugs without the windows.
The hole on the Simplex dropout were for tiny axle adjustment Delrin pucks that the adjuster screws go through. Used instead of the usual small springs on other rear dropouts.

repechage

I have a two Moto’s- long top tubes for the seat tube size.

awac

I was looking for one on eBay last night, but got side tracked and bought a Mavic 501 front hub to match a rear one I have and a new Schwalbe Marathon for half price, must focus…..

VintageSteelEU

My bet is it's Motobecane C2 / C2R or French version of Grand Record (C2 had mudguard eyelets, GR didn't have them), Main tubes (3) Vitus 172. Late 70's - early 80's (decals visible under the top coat point to that period as well as the fork crown). It's not C4 or C5 because:
1. the lugs are short, cutout, Bocama (C4 or C5 would have long ones, earlier C4 without cutouts, later with cutouts). This already points to C2. Could be Grand Touring, but it's not (because of the shape of seat stay ends).
2. The seatpost lug is different than with C4 or C5 (which used the cast ones or whatever the technology, but basically the pinch bolt area was solid metal)
3. The end of the seat stays are of the variety used with C5, Grand Sprint (and it's not Grand Sprint because: a. eyelets. b. good quality dropouts, not stamped ones. Nothing wrong with stamped ones, but they were cheaper) and C2 / Grand Record. C4, Grand Touring, Grand Jubile used ends slightly wrapped around the seat lug.
4. Simplex dropouts (with or without eyelets) were used on C2. I mean MB had various models using various dropouts: Gipiemme, Huret, Campagnolo. But the fact you have proper Simplex droputs there points to a higher end frame.
5. Brake bridge. Not C5 (these used reinforced ones). Not Grand Sprint (these used very simple ones, basically a pipe rolled from sheet metal and drilled through). Again, points to C2 / GR
6. Fork - again, not C4 or C5 type of fork crown or material. But totally possible for C2

Components: Weinmann 500 - probably original, again C2's came with those
Silstar crankset - probably original, again C2s came with those
Wheels - probably not original. Original hubs probably would have been Maillard built into one or another variant of Weinmann rims. Or Wolber. Mavic was little people still back then, apparently (might be wrong)
Stem - probably original, again C2's came with those. C4's and C5's had Belleri or Italian stuff. The handlebar was probably standard Motobecane (whoever made them with M logo) 25.4 with Hutchinson grips and integrated brake lever hoods.

Most likely it would have come with Huret / Simplex derailleurs, shifters, Weinmann brake levers, SR Laprade seatpost, SR or Lyotard pedals, Motobecane or San Marco saddle.

For the price? Absolutely amazing find. OK, definitely needs work. That ugly paint might come off, I'd hit it with white spirits and green scourer (gently and patiently) orjust the dishwashing sponge scouring side. Wear a respirator mask and do it outdoors It will be a tedious process probably. But shouldn't affect the original, bleu regate paint. Dents, bends and other imperfections don't seem to be structural looking at the photos, I think it should be possible to take care of them. Very, very good find! How did I miss it? I mean I wouldn't have bought it, but I would be definitely forcing myself not to buy it This will make a great bicycle.

awac

What a great analysis. I think you are bang on the money. I had found https://thevelocollective.com/motobecane-grand-sprint/ which shows a C2 called on the web site a Grand Sprint which was very near.

Bulgier has great MB catalogues but mostly US. Perhaps a thread we could post only European catalogues of MB? I am sure this would be of help to our US friends importing as well.

It was a gamble buy. I am running out of space. It was the grainy picture of the dropouts which swung the vote! If it had been rubbish I thought I could have got my money back on the brakes and bits and bobs. The brakes have the adjuster tubes which a pair of Weinmann carrera brakes I bought for £10 months back are missing!

I am tempted to find a lighter fork, this is not going to be a rush job, I still have that C4 to finish first! Where does time go?

VintageSteelEU

I might be wrong and who knows what the French did with the bikes intended for the European markets, I wasn't around to witness the intricacies of their manufacturing decisions. With the Grand Sprint I have, the tubing is plain gauge Vitus 888, dropouts are stamped and overall, it's a very decent bicycle (well, now a pile of parts stashed away). And it doesn't have cut-out lugs. When I got the frame, my first thoughts were "it's a very nice one". It's only when I had it built up and happily riding it I started lusting after "finer" frames Because if not "top of the line" model can be that nice to ride, then absolute "top of the line" must be out of this world
If I remember correctly, they used that tubing on Grand Touring as well. As for Vitus 172 (and the weight of your frame would suggest top quality tubing such as Vitus 172, Reynolds 531 or Columbus SL at least in the main tubes) that seems to have been mostly reserved for the top of their lineup (not C5, but I think they had a year when they used that for C4). Though the bets are off when it comes to the French models, because the combinations are much more plentiful than when it comes to the catalogs in English and models for export to the UK and US. You have a "cyclotouriste" series with Vitus 888, you have the "training" series (Grand Sprint, roughly) with any tubing possible (including Vitus 172 and Reynolds 531)
Grand Sprint would be something like TR2 or similar. But in any case, Vitus 888 tubing would make a bit heavier frame than what you bought (not that it is bad tubing, it's only bad when we get obsessed over every gram of weight, the bicycle with it is still lighter and lightyears ahead in terms of design and manufacturing quality than an average piece of junk you can buy today).

We have to remember that Vitus 172, Reynolds 531 and Columbus SL were all tubes of very high quality and strength and I believe decisions to use one or another were made purely because of marketing reasons, especially when it comes to the models intended for the US market. Columbus SL and Reynolds 531 were easier to sell to the people with money to buy top end models (the same as Campagnolo derailleurs were easier to sell than Suntour, despite the latter being vastly superior in design and of matching materials quality). In the French market, they were more relaxed. They had many, many more models, some of them had Vitus 172 tubing and better quality dropouts, they were sourcing the dropouts from various manufacturers and who knows what that depended on. I wouldn't be surprised if they sourced what was available at the time. "Boss, we ran out of Campy dropouts for C5! I'm using Huret ones for the next batch"
They also had a much bigger range of components on the French models. Different customers, different buying choices. C5 I have stashed away for now came with Huret Success Titane, not Campy or anything else. I've seen them with Simplex derailleurs as well...
I would be very happy to have a frame built with Vitus 172 when I buy my next bike. Thankfully, I have two absolutely lovely bicycles right now, so next time I'm buing something I will be looking not so much into the tubing material as into how it was built into a bike. I will be paying attention to dropouts (Simplex, Huret, Gipiemme, Campagnolo), I will be paying attention to the seatstay bridge (at least the brake bolt hole reinforced) and I will be paying attention to the seatpost clamp area.

Yeah, Weinmann 500 are nothing to write home about. They are light though

As for the French catalogs, here's a Calameo example: https://www.calameo.com/books/000052438b1be575166eb