Giant Bikes...why the lack of love??
10-22-11, 02:09 PM
#126
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The point of compact is mostly b/cos, manufacturing cost-wise, it means fewer sizes. Instead of making sizes 49-62cm in 2cm increment, you just make small, medium, large and XL.
Aesthetically, a straight top-tube is infinitely more pleasing to the eye than a sloping top-tube. Aesthetics is important. That is one reason most cyclists drool over certain european brands, not because those brands ride better.
If I am gonna shell out 3/4 thousand dollars for a frame, I better like seeing it every morning. That is just the way it is with me.
And ONCE would have ridden any reasonable frame supplied by a loaded sponsor.
Aesthetically, a straight top-tube is infinitely more pleasing to the eye than a sloping top-tube. Aesthetics is important. That is one reason most cyclists drool over certain european brands, not because those brands ride better.
If I am gonna shell out 3/4 thousand dollars for a frame, I better like seeing it every morning. That is just the way it is with me.
And ONCE would have ridden any reasonable frame supplied by a loaded sponsor.
...as does any team, except out here where it seems to matter.
10-22-11, 04:53 PM
#129
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This has been a very interesting thread to read with some really good points and some really stupid responses. I got into cycling again, two years ago at age 63 when my wife bought me a 2009 Giant Sedona ST for my birthday, because my doctor was constantly on me about loosing weight. My wife didn't know anything about bikes and got the Sedona because the closest bike shop to our house is a Giant dealer. The more I rode, the more addicting I got to cycling and so I upgraded from the Sedona to a 2010 Giant Cypress, which I bought last July and still ride (2,354 miles on the Cypress). After buying the Cypress, I also decided that I wanted a road bike so I stared doing my homework. I didn't want to go get another Giant just because I owned two and started looking at other road bikes. Tampa has a lot of bike shops so I looked at almost every brand out there and had it narrowed down between a Pinarello and a Scott, both CF and in the $3,500 price range.
One day, during lunch, a co-worker wanted to go and test ride a bike so we went to a shop that was close to work. The shop carries various brands, including high end Giant and Specialized bikes but seems to have more Giants in stock than Specialized. While I was there, someone had just brought in a 2010 Defy 1 that they were test riding. I asked if I could take it out for a ride and just as soon as I got on that bike, I knew what bike I wanted. From the start, the bike fit me better than the Scott or the Pinarello and road like a dream. After riding the three, I really couldn't tell that much of a difference in the ride between the AL and CF to justify the difference in the price. I went back to my neighborhood LSB where I purchased my other bikes and saw that he had a 2009 Defy 2 that was marked down because it was the prior years model. I bought it that same day and I have not been sorry. I got the bike last October and have put 2,634 miles on it. Whether it has a cool sounding name, a flashy look or is raced by popular riders (who can win no matter what bike they are riding), the bike just fits and that is what matters more to me than anything else. We all have our stories .... this one is mine.
One day, during lunch, a co-worker wanted to go and test ride a bike so we went to a shop that was close to work. The shop carries various brands, including high end Giant and Specialized bikes but seems to have more Giants in stock than Specialized. While I was there, someone had just brought in a 2010 Defy 1 that they were test riding. I asked if I could take it out for a ride and just as soon as I got on that bike, I knew what bike I wanted. From the start, the bike fit me better than the Scott or the Pinarello and road like a dream. After riding the three, I really couldn't tell that much of a difference in the ride between the AL and CF to justify the difference in the price. I went back to my neighborhood LSB where I purchased my other bikes and saw that he had a 2009 Defy 2 that was marked down because it was the prior years model. I bought it that same day and I have not been sorry. I got the bike last October and have put 2,634 miles on it. Whether it has a cool sounding name, a flashy look or is raced by popular riders (who can win no matter what bike they are riding), the bike just fits and that is what matters more to me than anything else. We all have our stories .... this one is mine.
10-22-11, 06:00 PM
#130
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Rather happy with the looks of mine....
10-22-11, 06:05 PM
#131
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I'm so used to seeing "GIANT" on mountain bikes that it looks weird on road bikes.
10-22-11, 06:50 PM
#132
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They invented compact geometry. It was Giant that when head to head with the UCI when their compact frames were initially ruled illegal. Now many companies copy that style. Like Cervelo. Specialized. And on...
And I know a s@@tload about bikes because I have been working with them, racing them talking to people who design them, been fitted in factories for them, and selling them for 47 years. They actually have done a ton to their frames, especially the last five years. But you would have to know what to look for. What they don't do is pay people to run articles on them telling the world how great their bikes are, which is info eaten up by people that don't know any more than the last article they read while taking a dump.
Based on their sales, I expect they won't miss your purchase.
ONCE, Telekom, High Road, Rabobank, etc.. all seem to like or liked them as an office in which to make a living.
Whenever you see compact geometry, remember it came from that company that never does any innovation, just plugs along...
...and in the MTB world, Maestro suspension rocks.
And I know a s@@tload about bikes because I have been working with them, racing them talking to people who design them, been fitted in factories for them, and selling them for 47 years. They actually have done a ton to their frames, especially the last five years. But you would have to know what to look for. What they don't do is pay people to run articles on them telling the world how great their bikes are, which is info eaten up by people that don't know any more than the last article they read while taking a dump.
Based on their sales, I expect they won't miss your purchase.
ONCE, Telekom, High Road, Rabobank, etc.. all seem to like or liked them as an office in which to make a living.
Whenever you see compact geometry, remember it came from that company that never does any innovation, just plugs along...
...and in the MTB world, Maestro suspension rocks.
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10-22-11, 07:37 PM
#134
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I planned on getting a Giant Defy3 but unfortunately the 2012 model is $200 more than the 2011. And the components are pretty much the same. Now im considering a Raleigh.
And I have 2012 Giant Escape 1 hybrid, which is awesome.
And I have 2012 Giant Escape 1 hybrid, which is awesome.
10-22-11, 07:42 PM
#135
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no idea but i doubt very much trek would be that innovative.
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10-22-11, 08:18 PM
#136
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Edit: Adding some photos because on the 41 there are those who always want "photos or it's not true." The Strada Cadence on the left is the computer for the road bike (purchased October 18, 2010). The Sigma on the right is the computer for the hybrid (purchased July 14, 2010). The miles I posted originally were a bit off for both computers as I was trying to do it out of memory.
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Ride Safe ... Ride Hard ... Ride Daily
2017 Colnago C-RS
2012 Colnago Ace
2010 Giant Cypress
HCFR Cycling Team
Ride Safe ... Ride Hard ... Ride Daily
2017 Colnago C-RS
2012 Colnago Ace
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Last edited by John_V; 10-23-11 at 07:10 AM.
10-22-11, 10:03 PM
#137
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The point of compact is mostly b/cos, manufacturing cost-wise, it means fewer sizes. Instead of making sizes 49-62cm in 2cm increment, you just make small, medium, large and XL.
Aesthetically, a straight top-tube is infinitely more pleasing to the eye than a sloping top-tube. Aesthetics is important. That is one reason most cyclists drool over certain european brands, not because those brands ride better.
If I am gonna shell out 3/4 thousand dollars for a frame, I better like seeing it every morning. That is just the way it is with me.
And ONCE would have ridden any reasonable frame supplied by a loaded sponsor.
Aesthetically, a straight top-tube is infinitely more pleasing to the eye than a sloping top-tube. Aesthetics is important. That is one reason most cyclists drool over certain european brands, not because those brands ride better.
If I am gonna shell out 3/4 thousand dollars for a frame, I better like seeing it every morning. That is just the way it is with me.
And ONCE would have ridden any reasonable frame supplied by a loaded sponsor.
10-23-11, 12:42 AM
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Yep! I have never been moved by the Specialized aesthetic.
Great bikes, I understand, but for me, their aesthetic is just not making my heart thump. You have to understand, I really have to like a frame visually, before I'll consider test-riding it. And the test-ride then determines go/no go on purchase.
I won't shell out good money for something (anything at all) that I don't enjoy looking at. That is the way it has always been for me.
10-23-11, 12:56 AM
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I do know he was building carbon bikes for Greg Lemond from way back.
10-23-11, 03:36 AM
#142
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CADEX 980C was a carbon tube, aluminum lugged bike that's considered the first road bike to use carbon that was "affordable".
10-23-11, 03:40 AM
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I think Giant have one flaw in their marketing strategy which is based on supplying a bike for everybody, from low end to TDF.
Conversation with cyclist.
Cyclist - Really love my new Bike - Cannondale Super Six
Me - What was your old bike
Cyclist - Giant, but the Cannondale is much better, accelerates faster, corners better
Me - What type of Giant
Cyclist - OCR1 - Alum frame with carbon fork
So Cyclist is comparing a second hand relaxed geometry alum bike with 105 approx five years old against new race geometry, CF bike with Ultegra 6700.
Giants can end up with a reputation as not great bikes, because people start with a lowish end Giant bike and then trade up to something else which is better than the Giant.
Compare to many other brands which do not have the low end bikes.
Conversation with cyclist.
Cyclist - Really love my new Bike - Cannondale Super Six
Me - What was your old bike
Cyclist - Giant, but the Cannondale is much better, accelerates faster, corners better
Me - What type of Giant
Cyclist - OCR1 - Alum frame with carbon fork
So Cyclist is comparing a second hand relaxed geometry alum bike with 105 approx five years old against new race geometry, CF bike with Ultegra 6700.
Giants can end up with a reputation as not great bikes, because people start with a lowish end Giant bike and then trade up to something else which is better than the Giant.
Compare to many other brands which do not have the low end bikes.
10-23-11, 03:45 AM
#144
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10-23-11, 04:18 AM
#147
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I had a 2010 Giant TCR Adv. 1. Came from a Pinarello F4:13 with 10sp Chorus. Loved the Giant, it was a smoother ride. Preferred the Campag but between chorus 10and ultegra 6700, meh.
Went to a Pinarello FP7 with Chorus 11.. ZOMG
So that's what I'm missing out on!
Improved in every area.
Went to a Pinarello Dogma, with SR11.
Excuse me *grabs tissue*
The Giant, and all Giants, are and always will be the benchmark in terms of value for money, and indeed at times, technology. Amazing. Giant does everything WELL, but aside from value for money, nothing truly amazing.
FWIW MY dogma is more comfortable even with the 60 modulus carbon. It's an amazing bike; as was the FP7 which was similar but less responsive. The FP7 and Dogma really define themselves. The Giant...it was just a bike.
FWIW The Carbon on the Dogma is 588 Gpa and the carbon on Giants highest end offering is 294 Gpa. If you know what that means, you know what you're missing out on. And it's not loose fillings either
Went to a Pinarello FP7 with Chorus 11.. ZOMG
So that's what I'm missing out on!
Improved in every area.
Went to a Pinarello Dogma, with SR11.
Excuse me *grabs tissue*
The Giant, and all Giants, are and always will be the benchmark in terms of value for money, and indeed at times, technology. Amazing. Giant does everything WELL, but aside from value for money, nothing truly amazing.
FWIW MY dogma is more comfortable even with the 60 modulus carbon. It's an amazing bike; as was the FP7 which was similar but less responsive. The FP7 and Dogma really define themselves. The Giant...it was just a bike.
FWIW The Carbon on the Dogma is 588 Gpa and the carbon on Giants highest end offering is 294 Gpa. If you know what that means, you know what you're missing out on. And it's not loose fillings either
10-23-11, 06:03 AM
#149
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FWIW, Giant switched, in 2012 to Toray T-800 fibers. Here's a link...https://www.toraycfa.com/application.html
This is the stuff that the Boeing 777 is made out of. It took 144 grams off the TCR Advanced SL and a medium frame is 820 grams.
To Braden, the Dogma is a frame above the TCR ADvanced if there's a direct comparison. The Advanced SL would be more in line and Torayca is involved in both.
Cannondale still wins the weight weenie contest with the EVO.
This is the stuff that the Boeing 777 is made out of. It took 144 grams off the TCR Advanced SL and a medium frame is 820 grams.
To Braden, the Dogma is a frame above the TCR ADvanced if there's a direct comparison. The Advanced SL would be more in line and Torayca is involved in both.
Cannondale still wins the weight weenie contest with the EVO.
Last edited by roadwarrior; 10-23-11 at 06:13 AM.
10-23-11, 08:33 AM
#150
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Exxon made the first carbon fiber bike,marketed as a Graftek.
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