Nathan555

Hi,

I recently bought a pair of Token C55 Carbon Clinchers. Part of the reason was because the weight at 1448g seemed great value, but when I received them, they were nearly 200gs more (excluding rim tape and skewers). They were pretty up front about the true weight with a specs sheet in the box that said they actually weighed 739g front & 894g rear (which is 1633g total and roughly 12.7% more than advertised). After weighing them myself I can say that's fairly accurate.

Is this as normal as Token makes it appear to be or should I be a bit peeved off for being mislead?

Thanks

datlas 

Sounds like too much of a difference. Is it possible the tubular version weighs 1448 and the clincher is approx 200g heavier? That is my guess.

Jiggle

They know you're not going to ship them back to Taiwan so they fudge the specs to get your money.

PiLigand

I'd be mad.

Email them with a "What the hell?" inquiry. They'll probably have some half-assed excuse, but I'm curious to know what it is. I would also bet they'll just offer to accept a return.

rpenmanparker 

That weight difference is too much to tolerate. I would send them back. But the clincher-tubular thing could be the right explanation.

November Dave

I'd send them back, categorically. As much as we hate it, the norm is to fudge. We fudge, too, only it's in the direction of making sure no one gets a bad surprise.

If you've bought something based on weight, you must weigh it and confirm, and impose consequences if it comes in unacceptably heavier. Assuming you're comparing advertised specs to received product correctly, you've been lied to.

What constitutes unacceptably heavier? We see alloy rim weights vary +/- 15g/rim, carbon weight variance is more like +/- 10g/rim. Hubs and spokes do not vary by more than a gram or 3 per wheel. Our convention would be to create a stated weight based on the heaviest rim. Many do the median, many others find the lightest one ever made and use that. Again, if you are comparing specs correctly, there has never been a wheel set of that model that weighed anything close to what is stated, and that is definitely unacceptable.

And we don't really get too worked up over weight. It's spec-fudging that bothers us.

gregf83 

Ultimately, the weight isn't going to make a difference to your riding, however, the wheels were mis-represented. You have two options: Cancel the sale and ask for a full refund or ask for a discount. If you want a refund they would need to oblige and if they didn't you could go through Visa. Personally, I would settle for a reasonable discount.

Darth Steele

^^^^ this...

"Just send it back to us"

rpenmanparker 

My experience with variation of rim and hub weight exactly matches November Dave's. Spokes tend to average out to nominal unless a whole run is over or under.

himespau 

Sounds evil, but is probably true.

whitemax

Dave speaks the truth. My Rail 52's weigh exactly as they were advertised (thanks for the great wheels).

A few years back, I bought a set of aluminum rims from a small reputable company and they turned out to weigh 80 grams more than advertised (I won't say which, they've been great wheels and 80 grams wasn't a deal breaker). I called the owner to ask about the variance and he apologized stating that different batches of the rims tended to weigh differently sometimes and they were working on making sure they were closer to the claimed weight. With November having proprietary molds, I reckon they can better insure the weights of what they sell.

rpenmanparker 

Aluminum rims are extruded through a die which wears over time allowing the rim extrusions to grow in thickness and weight over time. Most aluminum rim makers start with dies that are on the small side so that a run of rims starts out on the light side of nominal and becomes heavier as the run progresses. The variation in rim thickness and weight is actually intended as a way of extending the life of the dies which are expensive to machine. Conscientious manufacturers will start the run only about 5% light and end it when the rims reach about 5% heavy. So the weight specification is about +/- 5% which is completely reasonable. Guys who are trying to save an extra few bucks will start out even lighter and keep running with the same dies until the rims become quite heavy. That isn't right. It is also wrong for the manufacturer to quote the lightest rim they ever make as the nominal.

nastystang

my Williams carbon clincher were slightly lighter about 20 grams. Right in line with tolerance I am sure. 200 grams is a lot and its unlikely they get many returns. Hopefully they meet your expectations on every thing else.

Nathan555

Thanks guys, I think I found the answer, they gave me PSR1432 Spokes rather than the advertised CX-Ray spokes, which on some of the wheels they advertise accounts for nearly the exact 185g difference. Thanks for the help, I'll be looking to see if I can get these replaced.

rpenmanparker 

That would do it. It don't think that spoke is nearly as good as the lighter CX-Ray. Exchanging them is a good idea.

canam73

While it seems OP has figured out his issue, here is a reference for what is typical in in advertised vs actual wheel weights. Many of the listings are old, but you can still spot trends on who is more honest:

Weight Weenies - Road Wheels

rpenmanparker 

Sure, but it is not all honesty/dishonesty. There is normal manufacturing variation as discussed earlier in this thread. In any manufactured product it is normal and accepted practice to advertise only the average, saving the actual range of variation for a "Technical Specification Sheet". Most honest would be to quote the range over which one's wheels could be expected to vary, not only the average weight and certainly not only the lowest possible weight. I agree that the latter is dishonest.

canam73

Right. Which is why I said you can spot trends.

rpenmanparker 

Exactly, I just meant that a list of one-off samples of product could suggest a supplier is "dishonest", when they are quite acceptably quoting the average of their production. That one sample tested could just be an outlier, one that you and I wouldn't want to receive, but still just part of the normal distribution of product.