Better Steel Balls for Bearing
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Better Steel Balls for Bearing
Hi there,
Does anyone know how to differentiate a better ball bearing from lesser one.? If you dont mind I prefer also the brand.
Does anyone know how to differentiate a better ball bearing from lesser one.? If you dont mind I prefer also the brand.
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,706
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5779 Post(s)
Liked 2,576 Times
in
1,427 Posts
The balls used in bearings conform to very precisely defined standards. Search for steel ball grade system or a similar phrase for information.
Grade 25 balls are better than you need, but the cost difference is low enough that they're a cheap indulgence.
Grade 25 balls are better than you need, but the cost difference is low enough that they're a cheap indulgence.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Roswell, GA
Posts: 8,319
Bikes: '93 Trek 750, '92 Schwinn Crisscross, '93 Mongoose Alta
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1438 Post(s)
Liked 1,092 Times
in
723 Posts
Ceramic balls offer many advantages; nearly all are inapplicable to bicycle service, so save yourself some money, get grade 25 chrome steel balls and enjoy your ride.
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656
Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2026 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,096 Times
in
742 Posts
Bearing balls use a numerical grading system that indicated roundness and tolerances. The lower the grade number, the better the roundness, etc. For example Grade 25 balls are "better" than Grade 100. For bicycle use, Grade 200 or better is perfectly satisfactory but, as FBinNY noted, the cost difference is so small so most mechanics will use Grade 25 balls.
All the big bearing manufactures (SKF, Timken, etc.) make bearing balls but finding a specific brand name is difficult since they are only sold directly in very large quantities. So the ones you find in reasonable numbers (packages of 25 or 100) in bike shops or on-line dealers are repackaged by distributors under either a generic on distributor brand name.
All the big bearing manufactures (SKF, Timken, etc.) make bearing balls but finding a specific brand name is difficult since they are only sold directly in very large quantities. So the ones you find in reasonable numbers (packages of 25 or 100) in bike shops or on-line dealers are repackaged by distributors under either a generic on distributor brand name.
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked 52 Times
in
18 Posts
You can get bearings just about anywhere, but I had good buys from these guys. Check out the cycle bearing section, some ok info and reviews for various grades.
search.. simplybearings . co . uk
Sorry, I don't have enough post before I can post links
search.. simplybearings . co . uk
Sorry, I don't have enough post before I can post links
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18373 Post(s)
Liked 4,508 Times
in
3,351 Posts
I got tired of chrome pealing off of steel bearings.
The last batch of bearings I bought were 440 Stainless bearings from BC Precision.
https://www.bcprecision.com/collecti...-bearing-balls
Bulk prices seemed fairly reasonable. I haven't been riding on them long enough to get a long term report yet, but they built up nicely.
I have tried a few Chinese import Si3N4 ceramic bearings off of E-Bay. Not too bad for buying enough for one or two wheels. So far so good, although it is time to tear down and inspect a few wheels.
The last batch of bearings I bought were 440 Stainless bearings from BC Precision.
https://www.bcprecision.com/collecti...-bearing-balls
Bulk prices seemed fairly reasonable. I haven't been riding on them long enough to get a long term report yet, but they built up nicely.
I have tried a few Chinese import Si3N4 ceramic bearings off of E-Bay. Not too bad for buying enough for one or two wheels. So far so good, although it is time to tear down and inspect a few wheels.
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 18,073
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4201 Post(s)
Liked 3,857 Times
in
2,305 Posts
huka- Are you having problems with your current bearings? Andy
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656
Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2026 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,096 Times
in
742 Posts
Stainless steel bearing balls are typically purchased for their corrosion resistance, not for improved wear. The 400-series stainless steels can be hardened but not to the extent that "chrome steel" balls can be.
#9
Banned
They put a sticker on the bag of a thousand, when I bough some at an industrial bearing store , in Eugene..
#10
Calamari Marionette Ph.D
Chrome Steel
Grade 25 Chrome steel bearing balls are widely used in precision ball bearings as well as most aerospace, transportation and industrial applications. Chromium (Cr) has a tendency to increase hardness, toughness and wear resistance of steel. Chrome steel is a chrome alloy carbon steel, not a chrome plated steel. Chrome steel balls have excellent surface quality, high hardness and high load bearing capacity as a result of through hardening (Rockwell C 60-67).Chrome steel is approximately 96% iron and capable of being attracted by a magnet
Grade 25 Chrome steel bearing balls are widely used in precision ball bearings as well as most aerospace, transportation and industrial applications. Chromium (Cr) has a tendency to increase hardness, toughness and wear resistance of steel. Chrome steel is a chrome alloy carbon steel, not a chrome plated steel. Chrome steel balls have excellent surface quality, high hardness and high load bearing capacity as a result of through hardening (Rockwell C 60-67).Chrome steel is approximately 96% iron and capable of being attracted by a magnet
440c Stainless Steel
Grade 25 AISI type 440-C stainless steel balls afford the advantage of maximum hardness (58-65 Rockwell C ) combined with corrosion-resisting properties making them especially useful for bearing applications in severe environmental condition. 440-C stainless steel is a high carbon martensitic stainless steel with moderate corrosion resistance and high strength and the ability to keep excellent hardness in heavy service.
Grade 25 AISI type 440-C stainless steel balls afford the advantage of maximum hardness (58-65 Rockwell C ) combined with corrosion-resisting properties making them especially useful for bearing applications in severe environmental condition. 440-C stainless steel is a high carbon martensitic stainless steel with moderate corrosion resistance and high strength and the ability to keep excellent hardness in heavy service.
https://bearingballstore.com/
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656
Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2026 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,096 Times
in
742 Posts
True but chrome steel bearings can be hardened to Rc 60-66 or so without becoming brittle and cost less. Their hardness benefit isn't major but unless the corrosion resistance is needed, chrome steel is more than adequate.
#12
Senior Member
I got tired of chrome pealing off of steel bearings.
The last batch of bearings I bought were 440 Stainless bearings from BC Precision.
https://www.bcprecision.com/collecti...-bearing-balls
Bulk prices seemed fairly reasonable. I haven't been riding on them long enough to get a long term report yet, but they built up nicely.
I have tried a few Chinese import Si3N4 ceramic bearings off of E-Bay. Not too bad for buying enough for one or two wheels. So far so good, although it is time to tear down and inspect a few wheels.
The last batch of bearings I bought were 440 Stainless bearings from BC Precision.
https://www.bcprecision.com/collecti...-bearing-balls
Bulk prices seemed fairly reasonable. I haven't been riding on them long enough to get a long term report yet, but they built up nicely.
I have tried a few Chinese import Si3N4 ceramic bearings off of E-Bay. Not too bad for buying enough for one or two wheels. So far so good, although it is time to tear down and inspect a few wheels.
Stainless steel is softer, at least the affordable type.
Normal Grade 25 off Amazon is fine. No need to make this more expensive.
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 18,073
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4201 Post(s)
Liked 3,857 Times
in
2,305 Posts
But our bearings do see both axial and radial loads. Bushings don't handle axial forces well as really cheap kids' bikes show after a bit of abuse.
I do agree that we tend to be too anal WRT the bearings we think we are using. Andy
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,706
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5779 Post(s)
Liked 2,576 Times
in
1,427 Posts
You're kidding, right? JUST the bearings?
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#16
Full Member
Keep in mind that the grade of the ball bearing should match the grade of the races. If you go with super hard balls, that may cause wear to the races. And replace all bearings, not just singles, and always replace with bearings from the same batch.
Not that I answered the OP's question, but I thought worth mentioning.
Not that I answered the OP's question, but I thought worth mentioning.
#17
Senior Member
Keep in mind that the grade of the ball bearing should match the grade of the races. If you go with super hard balls, that may cause wear to the races. And replace all bearings, not just singles, and always replace with bearings from the same batch.
Not that I answered the OP's question, but I thought worth mentioning.
Not that I answered the OP's question, but I thought worth mentioning.
Some say Grade 100 is good enough (we have a bicycle only, not a gas turbine etc.), so Grade 25 is good enough and still cheap.
Dirt has 100000 more impact than the slight size differences.
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Los Alamitos, Calif.
Posts: 2,475
Bikes: Canyon Endurace
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1041 Post(s)
Liked 923 Times
in
540 Posts
About 30 years ago before the internet and at a time when I had just picked up a used bike (full campy), I thought I'd become an "expert" and research and find bearings that would decrease any resistance and make me a great rider. After calling several manufacturers and told them the grade of the campy bearings (I believe 25) they ALL asked me why would I want anything better than that. From that day on, bearings have never been a concern.
#19
Senior Member
Keep in mind that the grade of the ball bearing should match the grade of the races. If you go with super hard balls, that may cause wear to the races. And replace all bearings, not just singles, and always replace with bearings from the same batch.
Not that I answered the OP's question, but I thought worth mentioning.
Not that I answered the OP's question, but I thought worth mentioning.
oger (who?) writes:
> Did you know you should only ever use ball bearings from the same
> batch in one side of a race? They're not exactly the same size
> between batches. Never simply replace that naughty one that bounced
> into the corner of the garage - replace the other 10 (or whatever)
> too!
You are making this up. The tolerance between bearing balls is so
small as to be below a small fraction of the elastic compliance of the
steel bearing. Besides, the races of bicycle bearings are so rough
that a tight bearing feels lumpy. In high precision bearings used on
computer disk storage devices, preload causes a smooth viscous drag.
Even for these bearings the balls are not identical but are made to a
prescribed tolerance. I don't believe I understand what you mean by
the same batch. Each bearing is not made in the same finishing
process as the others in a shipment of balls.
Jobst Brandt <jbrandt@hpl.hp.com>
#20
Full Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Aalesund, Norway
Posts: 259
Bikes: Trek Top Fuel 26" & Trek ion cx 28" (cyclocross)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
FWIW, i have a Wheels manufacturing bottom bracket coming in. It has angular bearings so it cost a little more. Maybe this means it`s better? I aim to find out
https://www.bikerumor.com/2013/04/24...-install-tool/
https://www.bikerumor.com/2013/04/24...-install-tool/
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656
Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2026 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,096 Times
in
742 Posts
About 30 years ago before the internet and at a time when I had just picked up a used bike (full campy), I thought I'd become an "expert" and research and find bearings that would decrease any resistance and make me a great rider. After calling several manufacturers and told them the grade of the campy bearings (I believe 25) they ALL asked me why would I want anything better than that. From that day on, bearings have never been a concern.
#22
Calamari Marionette Ph.D
That's why I posted that. Chrome steel is what I use.
#23
Senior Member
Kids bikes use plastic bushings. Flanged bronze bushings would handle the minor side loads.
#24
Full Member
You are kidding about the same batch superstition, right?
oger (who?) writes:
> Did you know you should only ever use ball bearings from the same
> batch in one side of a race? They're not exactly the same size
> between batches. Never simply replace that naughty one that bounced
> into the corner of the garage - replace the other 10 (or whatever)
> too!
You are making this up. The tolerance between bearing balls is so
small as to be below a small fraction of the elastic compliance of the
steel bearing. Besides, the races of bicycle bearings are so rough
that a tight bearing feels lumpy. In high precision bearings used on
computer disk storage devices, preload causes a smooth viscous drag.
Even for these bearings the balls are not identical but are made to a
prescribed tolerance. I don't believe I understand what you mean by
the same batch. Each bearing is not made in the same finishing
process as the others in a shipment of balls.
Jobst Brandt <jbrandt@hpl.hp.com>
oger (who?) writes:
> Did you know you should only ever use ball bearings from the same
> batch in one side of a race? They're not exactly the same size
> between batches. Never simply replace that naughty one that bounced
> into the corner of the garage - replace the other 10 (or whatever)
> too!
You are making this up. The tolerance between bearing balls is so
small as to be below a small fraction of the elastic compliance of the
steel bearing. Besides, the races of bicycle bearings are so rough
that a tight bearing feels lumpy. In high precision bearings used on
computer disk storage devices, preload causes a smooth viscous drag.
Even for these bearings the balls are not identical but are made to a
prescribed tolerance. I don't believe I understand what you mean by
the same batch. Each bearing is not made in the same finishing
process as the others in a shipment of balls.
Jobst Brandt <jbrandt@hpl.hp.com>
#25
Calamari Marionette Ph.D
What I'm saying is if you have to replace 18 bearings in your rear hub, and you have a year old bag with five bearings left, don't combine them with a bag you just bought. The old bearings might be 0.12504 inch plus or minus .00001 inch, and the new batch is 0.12506 inch but still plus or minus .00001 inch. So you could end up matching a 0.12503 ball from the old batch with a 0.12507 bearings from the new batch, which could be a significant variation. I'm pulling numbers out of my head trying to illustrate the point, but I've read something to this effect.
On a grade 25 ball, the entire range of +/- is not wide enough to matter in a bicycle application.