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Help on a few beginner training concepts

Old 10-06-20, 04:23 PM
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chrisvalley
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Help on a few beginner training concepts

It seems spending considerable time in "Zone 2" would generate significant benefits for me at this point.

Using Trainingpeaks to scan my rides over the past month the max heart rate for 5, 20, and 60min are 165, 156, and 151 respectively. Does this mean that my Lactate Threshold Heart Rate is greater than or equal to 156?

Then I used 8020-zone-calculator to generate a value of 140 for the top end on Zone 2. Thus, for training I am using "stay below 140" as my metric for long (3hr+) rides on weekend and shorter (~1hr) recovery rides during week.

Is this correct endurance cycling thinking? Further background below if interested. Thank you.



Background
age: 35
size: 6'5'', 220 lb, 37in waist
Just about overweight first time in life due to caloric intake explosion from Covid and stopping smoking

Goals:
-generate general endurance capability and health
-be able to ride essentially indefinitely for general touring, multi-sport endurance events, etc.

I have never trained endurance as an adult. I do have an basic understanding of energy systems concepts from weight training. Cycling has rapidly become one of 3 legs for me healthwise. The other two are maintaining nicotine free and re-engaging in weight training. My plan is to build a healthy base at this point with Zone 2 cycling, basic total body middle rep (4-8) lifting, and consistent pre-habilitation exercises. If and when progress feels not as rapid my current plan is to add Zone 4+ intervals and maximal and/or dynamic effort lifting (ie more neuro intensive explosive lifts). Criticism welcomed.
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Old 10-06-20, 05:08 PM
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Iride01 
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I'd get my lactate threshold by what Joe Friel recommends. https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/j...setting-zones/

Are you doing actual ride or on a stationary bike or trainer? I can't get remotely interested in training except on a bicycle ridden outside for real. If I get on a bike or trainer, I just do cadence work.

And don't bog yourself down too much with worrying about numbers and what to do in a workout when. Unless worry about numbers is part of the fun that motivates you.

Once you have your zones set up, then just ride. Note how when you stay in the higher zones you can't last as long. You'll probably find you can do zone 3 for most of a ride no matter what the length once you've got used to cycling and have your hydration and nutrition somewhat figured out.

If you want to improve, be sure you go into the high zones. Slow back to an easier zone 3 or 2 before you wear out. When rested enough go for those higher zones again. That is basically interval training and it generally will give you improvements to speed and endurance faster.

You can do all this stuff without really thinking much about it on a ride. Then save the stats to whatever you desire and see how much better you were than previous days, weeks and years. There will be ups and downs, but that is life.

If you want to get crazy designing your workout rides, you can. But you'll get better fast just casually doing what I described above.

You can also hire a coach if you need someone to prod you.
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Old 10-06-20, 05:58 PM
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caloso
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It's been a long time since I tested my LTHR, but I think the simplest way is to go out and ride a 30min TT and take the best 20min avg.
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Old 10-07-20, 11:09 AM
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Another way to look at zones is to find your AeT and AnT (also known as VT1 and VT2 - google all these terms) by paying close attention to your breathing rate. AnT is usually close to LT. Endurance training is usually below AeT.

For sure trying to extract LT from looking at past rides isn't the way to go. You have to test. Using breathing is also a perfectly good way to go, though breathing only shows the two breakpoints clearly. When not using power, I go by a combination of breathing and HR. When trying to ride in a particular zone, it's best not to be pushing the top of that zone all the time...

Your plan sounds like a good one to me. The key to cycling fitness is "ride lots."

Good for you for stopping smoking! That's really tough. Keep it up. Just refuse to lose.
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Old 10-07-20, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
For sure trying to extract LT from looking at past rides isn't the way to go. You have to test.
For me, one of the most effective ways to find thresholds is to look at a histogram of time at power or heart rate in 5W or 5 bpm increments from several hard rides. It's pretty easy to see where there is a sudden drop off. So I would say it's not hard to extract LT from an examination of past rides. Further, a well supplied power/duration curve (based on past rides) can provide much more and richer information.
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Old 10-07-20, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by asgelle
For me, one of the most effective ways to find thresholds is to look at a histogram of time at power or heart rate in 5W or 5 bpm increments from several hard rides. It's pretty easy to see where there is a sudden drop off. So I would say it's not hard to extract LT from an examination of past rides. Further, a well supplied power/duration curve (based on past rides) can provide much more and richer information.
This is true, but would the OP have enough data points?
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Old 10-07-20, 04:00 PM
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asgelle
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Originally Posted by caloso
This is true, but would the OP have enough data points?
I have no idea, but I was responding to the comment that the only way to know thresholds is through dedicated testing.
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Old 10-07-20, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by asgelle
For me, one of the most effective ways to find thresholds is to look at a histogram of time at power or heart rate in 5W or 5 bpm increments from several hard rides. It's pretty easy to see where there is a sudden drop off. So I would say it's not hard to extract LT from an examination of past rides. Further, a well supplied power/duration curve (based on past rides) can provide much more and richer information.
I went back and looked at some power/duration curves. Mine are all smooth curves except for a sharp drop off at ~3 X FTP at ~25 seconds. What software do you use to get it to display a histogram of that? Strava only does 25w increments and Elevate only zones. I do keep an eye on my 20' power on the P/D curve, but that's so dependent on the ride, the other riders if any, and the length of the climbs, and thus more dependent on the ride than my fitness.
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Old 10-07-20, 04:35 PM
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asgelle
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
I went back and looked at some power/duration curves. Mine are all smooth curves except for a sharp drop off at ~3 X FTP at ~25 seconds. What software do you use to get it to display a histogram of that? Strava only does 25w increments and Elevate only zones. I do keep an eye on my 20' power on the P/D curve, but that's so dependent on the ride, the other riders if any, and the length of the climbs, and thus more dependent on the ride than my fitness.
I use WKO5. It works best if you do it over several rides as long as they're not over such a long period that performance might have changed. Honestly though, I don't use that method much anymore. WKO5's estimates of performance metrics based on the full power/duration curve work well for me.

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Old 10-08-20, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by chrisvalley
It seems spending considerable time in "Zone 2" would generate significant benefits for me at this point.
Consistent riding would generate significant benefits at this point. Anything you do will be be a new stimulus and cause adaptations. You don't have to subscribe to any particular protocols or methodologies.

HRMs are fine to play around with, and as you start figuring out more of what you want to do and what it will take to do that, can be useful in guiding your training, but really isn't needed at this point to fine tune anything. Early on the most significant training advice you could possibly get is to work on keeping pressure on the pedals as long as possible; meaning as little coasting and soft pedaling (just turning the pedals over without any real effort) as possible. That alone will radically alter the amount of "training" you get on any one ride.

If you feel good, go hard. If you don't, don't. Cycling can be extremely tough to maintain long term if you jump into overzealous training. Get into a habit of riding, figure out what you enjoy about it, and focus on that for the time begin. I guarantee you'll continue to improve for quite a while.
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