Has anyone ever tested the steel of bike locks?
03-05-16, 11:59 AM
#26
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short answer NO.
I'll say it again, the core is different, This lock is used by the Ministry of Defense both in England and Japan, and is used for most oil rigs.
The body of the pad lock supports the core front,sides and rear.
It is a totally different animal, and made to a far higher specification.
Even if you could punch the core there is no copper retainer because the lock body it's self retains it.
This pad lock has been tested to death and so far short of a torch or angle grinder it wins every time.
I'll say it again, the core is different, This lock is used by the Ministry of Defense both in England and Japan, and is used for most oil rigs.
The body of the pad lock supports the core front,sides and rear.
It is a totally different animal, and made to a far higher specification.
Even if you could punch the core there is no copper retainer because the lock body it's self retains it.
This pad lock has been tested to death and so far short of a torch or angle grinder it wins every time.
I got the Pewag chain and an Abloy PL 350 on the way, while not quite as burly as the 362 the 350 was half the cost and is equally difficult to pick. The shackle on the 350 is 14mm or 0.55 inches thick, so thicker than the chain and, if appropriately hardened, I imagine would take a bit longer to cut through than the chain. Also thick enough that it won't even fit into the jaws of most bolt cutters.
03-05-16, 12:34 PM
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Any idea on how long the bigger Abloys take to cut through with a grinder? I know the Pewag 12mm chain takes a minute per cut in ideal conditions (held in a bench vise).
I got the Pewag chain and an Abloy PL 350 on the way, while not quite as burly as the 362 the 350 was half the cost and is equally difficult to pick. The shackle on the 350 is 14mm or 0.55 inches thick, so thicker than the chain and, if appropriately hardened, I imagine would take a bit longer to cut through than the chain. Also thick enough that it won't even fit into the jaws of most bolt cutters.
I got the Pewag chain and an Abloy PL 350 on the way, while not quite as burly as the 362 the 350 was half the cost and is equally difficult to pick. The shackle on the 350 is 14mm or 0.55 inches thick, so thicker than the chain and, if appropriately hardened, I imagine would take a bit longer to cut through than the chain. Also thick enough that it won't even fit into the jaws of most bolt cutters.
https://www.abloy.com/Abloy/Abloy.com...%208801401.pdf
Last edited by erig007; 03-05-16 at 01:35 PM.
03-05-16, 12:59 PM
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I have cut a hell of a lot of bike locks, more than most thieves will, I have defeated every U lock I have encountered.
A 6ft. digging bar will twist a U lock till something gives every time.
If on the bike I use another method, my small bottle jack I got cheap at a flea market.
There are few pad locks I can not pick with a standard tension wrench and long pick, most can be raked open with a Bogota rake or ***** picked with a hook or diamond pick.
Most combo locks are easily bypassed.
Then there is the big red croppers 46 inch for the ones i can't.
I haven't had to call the welders out to remove a lock in 20 years.
Every year when school is out the bike racks are left with 3 to 4 U locks hanging and forgotten along with chains and cables too.
Kids seem to lose the key to there bike once a month and when they do there Mom or Dad comes to the office and I get called to free there bike.
One Dad got mad when I raked his large pad lock open in just a second or two and made a smart comment, implying I must be a thief.
I simply re locked it and went home as it was already the end of my shift, I heard he was out there with a hack saw cussing for over an hour cutting through the chain. HAHAHA!
That day was a good day.
I took an interest while watching the locksmiths, I asked to learn and with time and practice I got pretty good, I never asked them to open a lock for me unless it was an emergency but often just asked how if I was stumped.
I still have trouble with some security pins but it just takes longer to set all the pins with out loosing tension and having to start over.
If you have time and the right tools no lock is theft proof, If I was still cutting a lot of locks an angle grinder would be at the top of my Christmas list.
There is not a lock made you can't open with that.
If you want the best of the best Pewag chain and an Abloy 362.
This chain 12mm is 63 Rockwell made in Austria, harder than bolt cutters and can not be frozen and broken either,I know this for sure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbCMpDFDqNo
Been there tried that. Also no one to this day has ever been able to pick an Abloy 362. And no one ever will in my opinion it is not internally possible.
Japan attacks Abloy 362 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmZh59JNwI4
I use them with an On Guard Brute mini U lock and a 5/8 Brinks cable for the front wheel and seat.
Never depend on one lock, even a guy with an angle grinder won't want to be at it long enough to get through all that.
Thieves gravitate to the low hanging fruit and will move on if it means high risk or to much time.
Another trick I use is on locks like the Medeco these are the locks the fire dept and police use, very hard to pick.
I use a soda can and cut out a pair of shackle shims and slide them down both sides of the shackle to open it, much faster,They can be picked but by far more experienced than I would ever claim to be. I have also used a punch and hammer, drill with huge success depends on how it's constructed.
Thieves will more often bypass a lock than try to pick it, it's faster.
A 6ft. digging bar will twist a U lock till something gives every time.
If on the bike I use another method, my small bottle jack I got cheap at a flea market.
There are few pad locks I can not pick with a standard tension wrench and long pick, most can be raked open with a Bogota rake or ***** picked with a hook or diamond pick.
Most combo locks are easily bypassed.
Then there is the big red croppers 46 inch for the ones i can't.
I haven't had to call the welders out to remove a lock in 20 years.
Every year when school is out the bike racks are left with 3 to 4 U locks hanging and forgotten along with chains and cables too.
Kids seem to lose the key to there bike once a month and when they do there Mom or Dad comes to the office and I get called to free there bike.
One Dad got mad when I raked his large pad lock open in just a second or two and made a smart comment, implying I must be a thief.
I simply re locked it and went home as it was already the end of my shift, I heard he was out there with a hack saw cussing for over an hour cutting through the chain. HAHAHA!
That day was a good day.
I took an interest while watching the locksmiths, I asked to learn and with time and practice I got pretty good, I never asked them to open a lock for me unless it was an emergency but often just asked how if I was stumped.
I still have trouble with some security pins but it just takes longer to set all the pins with out loosing tension and having to start over.
If you have time and the right tools no lock is theft proof, If I was still cutting a lot of locks an angle grinder would be at the top of my Christmas list.
There is not a lock made you can't open with that.
If you want the best of the best Pewag chain and an Abloy 362.
This chain 12mm is 63 Rockwell made in Austria, harder than bolt cutters and can not be frozen and broken either,I know this for sure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbCMpDFDqNo
Been there tried that. Also no one to this day has ever been able to pick an Abloy 362. And no one ever will in my opinion it is not internally possible.
Japan attacks Abloy 362 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmZh59JNwI4
I use them with an On Guard Brute mini U lock and a 5/8 Brinks cable for the front wheel and seat.
Never depend on one lock, even a guy with an angle grinder won't want to be at it long enough to get through all that.
Thieves gravitate to the low hanging fruit and will move on if it means high risk or to much time.
Another trick I use is on locks like the Medeco these are the locks the fire dept and police use, very hard to pick.
I use a soda can and cut out a pair of shackle shims and slide them down both sides of the shackle to open it, much faster,They can be picked but by far more experienced than I would ever claim to be. I have also used a punch and hammer, drill with huge success depends on how it's constructed.
Thieves will more often bypass a lock than try to pick it, it's faster.
03-05-16, 02:24 PM
#29
Senior Member
The PL350 is grade 5, data regarding how long it takes to cut, saw, blow, drill... (according to the standard) are here
https://www.abloy.com/Abloy/Abloy.com...%208801401.pdf
https://www.abloy.com/Abloy/Abloy.com...%208801401.pdf
edit; this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh46F3we1-M
shows testing of the PL 350 and the cutting they use is just with a powered hack saw device. Nothing close to an angle grinder in speed. Granted the powered hack saw barely even touches it, but I'd still be very interested in seeing what a cordless angle grinder would do in a few minutes.
Last edited by General Geoff; 03-05-16 at 02:28 PM.
03-05-16, 02:46 PM
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I hope no bike thief ever reads this.
A Makita cordless angle grinder with this blade a 4.5 angle grinder version of a 9 inch rescue cutter is the most wicked cutting tool any lock or chain would likely face and it would cut through anything you could secure a bike with in no more than a minute.
Fire Rescue Safety Blades by Desert Diamond Industries - www.desertdiamondindustries.com
https://www.amazon.com/Makita-BGA452Z.../dp/B000GJTDI0
This combo is the dream tool of any pro-thief.
A Makita cordless angle grinder with this blade a 4.5 angle grinder version of a 9 inch rescue cutter is the most wicked cutting tool any lock or chain would likely face and it would cut through anything you could secure a bike with in no more than a minute.
Fire Rescue Safety Blades by Desert Diamond Industries - www.desertdiamondindustries.com
https://www.amazon.com/Makita-BGA452Z.../dp/B000GJTDI0
This combo is the dream tool of any pro-thief.
Last edited by goraman; 03-05-16 at 02:54 PM.
03-05-16, 04:17 PM
#31
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I hope no bike thief ever reads this.
A Makita cordless angle grinder with this blade a 4.5 angle grinder version of a 9 inch rescue cutter is the most wicked cutting tool any lock or chain would likely face and it would cut through anything you could secure a bike with in no more than a minute.
Fire Rescue Safety Blades by Desert Diamond Industries - www.desertdiamondindustries.com
https://www.amazon.com/Makita-BGA452Z.../dp/B000GJTDI0
This combo is the dream tool of any pro-thief.
A Makita cordless angle grinder with this blade a 4.5 angle grinder version of a 9 inch rescue cutter is the most wicked cutting tool any lock or chain would likely face and it would cut through anything you could secure a bike with in no more than a minute.
Fire Rescue Safety Blades by Desert Diamond Industries - www.desertdiamondindustries.com
https://www.amazon.com/Makita-BGA452Z.../dp/B000GJTDI0
This combo is the dream tool of any pro-thief.
03-05-16, 04:45 PM
#33
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Testing the steel used on locks is a complicated affair. Alloys and tempers that may resist bolt cutters very well, may be more vulnerable to other methods, and vice versa. The design of the lock, and how the consumer uses it also factor into the overall security.
It's all about trade offs, and the only measure that's relevant is how that lock performs in your community.
In any case, in the age or portable power tools, anything van be violated, so all discussions are only on comparative security.
It's all about trade offs, and the only measure that's relevant is how that lock performs in your community.
In any case, in the age or portable power tools, anything van be violated, so all discussions are only on comparative security.
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03-05-16, 05:12 PM
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To my amusement, I found an aluminum U-lock on Amazon today.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003VLIWGE
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003VLIWGE
03-05-16, 05:19 PM
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To my amusement, I found an aluminum U-lock on Amazon today.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003VLIWGE
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003VLIWGE
03-05-16, 05:24 PM
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I'm thinking, if the lock is just for decoration anyway, then it might as well be made of plastic, and not require a key.
New product idea?
New product idea?
Last edited by Gresp15C; 03-05-16 at 05:29 PM.
03-05-16, 05:52 PM
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To my amusement, I found an aluminum U-lock on Amazon today.
Amazon.com : Palmy Mini Aluminium U-lock (5.1" X 2.95") Black : Bike U Locks : Sports & Outdoors
Amazon.com : Palmy Mini Aluminium U-lock (5.1" X 2.95") Black : Bike U Locks : Sports & Outdoors
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03-05-16, 09:10 PM
#38
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I just got the PL 350 in, it is one beast of a padlock.
03-05-16, 09:34 PM
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@goraman that's a good post. At some point it must be easier to cut the rack!
03-05-16, 10:10 PM
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You haven't seen the mul-t-lock e18h. About twice as big and heavy as yours, too big even for me 
(I sent the e18h back because the key looked weak and not as secure as the one from the abloy PL362 (half plastic/half metal which is ridiculous) and the cylinder was too much exposed (also the coating wasn't so great). Have had the PL362 for 6 years now and i'm pretty happy with it.
To give you an idea of how big the e18h is, there is about as much difference in size between the E18H and PL362 than there is between the PL362 and PL342.
https://securitysnobs.com/item_image...3e8512a5_2.jpg
(I sent the e18h back because the key looked weak and not as secure as the one from the abloy PL362 (half plastic/half metal which is ridiculous) and the cylinder was too much exposed (also the coating wasn't so great). Have had the PL362 for 6 years now and i'm pretty happy with it.
To give you an idea of how big the e18h is, there is about as much difference in size between the E18H and PL362 than there is between the PL362 and PL342.
https://securitysnobs.com/item_image...3e8512a5_2.jpg
Last edited by erig007; 03-05-16 at 10:42 PM.
03-05-16, 10:46 PM
#41
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Yeah, the e18h is huge. Gargantuan, even. 18mm thick shackle? Ridiculous (and awesome). And I thought a 14mm shackle was overkill. 
The S&G 951 looks about the same in size overall, but with only a 12mm (but super well shrouded) shackle. About three times the cost though!
At some point you might as well just get some 2 inch thick anchor chain to go with it!
The S&G 951 looks about the same in size overall, but with only a 12mm (but super well shrouded) shackle. About three times the cost though!
At some point you might as well just get some 2 inch thick anchor chain to go with it!
Last edited by General Geoff; 03-05-16 at 10:51 PM.
03-05-16, 10:51 PM
#42
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I bet it's embarrassing when someone steals your lock, and leaves the bike, huh?
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03-05-16, 11:42 PM
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I own one of the Makita cordless angle grinders.
Unless you have a ridiculously large chain and padlock (*edit: or the heaviest top of the range U locks), a thief will get your bike in so little time it is scary.
The only protection you have is the sound it makes and the totally suspect look of this. You hope that someone calls out or takes a photo of the bad guy, either scaring him off or helping to ID him later.
I know that if I ever see someone in the street with an angle grinder at work on a bike lock then I'm calling the cops, taking a photo of their face, and then challenging them.
Unless you have a ridiculously large chain and padlock (*edit: or the heaviest top of the range U locks), a thief will get your bike in so little time it is scary.
The only protection you have is the sound it makes and the totally suspect look of this. You hope that someone calls out or takes a photo of the bad guy, either scaring him off or helping to ID him later.
I know that if I ever see someone in the street with an angle grinder at work on a bike lock then I'm calling the cops, taking a photo of their face, and then challenging them.
Last edited by JonnyHK; 03-05-16 at 11:45 PM.
03-05-16, 11:58 PM
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I own one of the Makita cordless angle grinders.
Unless you have a ridiculously large chain and padlock (*edit: or the heaviest top of the range U locks), a thief will get your bike in so little time it is scary.
The only protection you have is the sound it makes and the totally suspect look of this. You hope that someone calls out or takes a photo of the bad guy, either scaring him off or helping to ID him later.
I know that if I ever see someone in the street with an angle grinder at work on a bike lock then I'm calling the cops, taking a photo of their face, and then challenging them.
Unless you have a ridiculously large chain and padlock (*edit: or the heaviest top of the range U locks), a thief will get your bike in so little time it is scary.
The only protection you have is the sound it makes and the totally suspect look of this. You hope that someone calls out or takes a photo of the bad guy, either scaring him off or helping to ID him later.
I know that if I ever see someone in the street with an angle grinder at work on a bike lock then I'm calling the cops, taking a photo of their face, and then challenging them.
Then he could tell police "I was minding my own business steeling bikes as usual when all of a sudden I was struck from behind and my Makita stolen".
Then he could tell police " the neighborhood is really getting bad when a poor bike theif can't do there job..."
I know my sense of humor is not for everyone.
Last edited by goraman; 03-06-16 at 12:01 AM.
03-06-16, 12:07 AM
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If he has a Makita Angle grinder, Id knock him out from behind and steel his angle grinder!
Then he could tell police "I was minding my own business steeling bikes as usual when all of a sudden I was struck from behind and my Makita stolen".
Then he could tell police " the neighborhood is really getting bad when a poor bike theif can't do there job..."
I know my sense of humor is not for everyone.
Then he could tell police "I was minding my own business steeling bikes as usual when all of a sudden I was struck from behind and my Makita stolen".
Then he could tell police " the neighborhood is really getting bad when a poor bike theif can't do there job..."
I know my sense of humor is not for everyone.
I get it.
There was an old British TV comedy show (late 70s?) called "Porridge" set in a jail. Found it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porridge_(TV_series)
One of the characters has something stolen from his cell (like his packet of biscuits/cookies etc) and he says to his friends "there is a thief among us"...
03-06-16, 12:24 AM
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03-06-16, 07:31 AM
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Sort of a side track, but how 'bout the iffy robustness of the bike racks that you use your super lock to secure your expensive bike? Some of the ones I've seen look like a good kick would buckle them. And then there are the hoop types that are bolted to the ground using normal hex nuts. It's all for show sometimes.
03-06-16, 10:36 AM
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Sort of a side track, but how 'bout the iffy robustness of the bike racks that you use your super lock to secure your expensive bike? Some of the ones I've seen look like a good kick would buckle them. And then there are the hoop types that are bolted to the ground using normal hex nuts. It's all for show sometimes.
. Some bike racks not even being attached to the ground in order to be removed more easily during winter 
Thieves could make a fortune stealing bike racks
03-06-16, 02:03 PM
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03-08-16, 07:54 AM
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Sort of a side track, but how 'bout the iffy robustness of the bike racks that you use your super lock to secure your expensive bike? Some of the ones I've seen look like a good kick would buckle them. And then there are the hoop types that are bolted to the ground using normal hex nuts. It's all for show sometimes.
Thieves cut through cycle racks and tape them up again to steal bikes | Crime | News | London Evening Standard
Even the bike itself can be used to break the lock, notice the thieves did not pay any mind to folks walking about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDOk3cnUKdY