martl

i bought this frame a few years back, and i would like to find out what tubeset that is.

The facts:
Brand: "Learco Guerra" - bought it as such from italy, fork crown has "LG" engraved, BB has "GUERRA" stamped in. Billato says they didn't make it. (clearly a "label" brand)

Tubes are partly ovalized and oversized, compared to a SL or similar. Similarities to MAX, but it isnt it, see below.

The Upper Tube is ovalized "vertically" at the front and "horizontally at the end
The Down Tube is ovalized on the front, but round on the lower end
The Seat Tube is round

the diameters are smaller than MAX would be:

Diameters:
Upper tube: 32,5 x 24mm at the front, 25x32,5mm at the rear end
Down Tube: 32x24,5mm at the front, 28,6 at the end
Seat Tube: round 28,8mm

Rear triangle:
Chainstay: front oval 15,5 x 23,4mm
Seatstay: 12,6mm round

it is lugged and the lugs fit *very* well, this is no amateur job.
Since such tubersets require the matching lugset, i think i can rule out a "bastard" frame made from different tubesets, or "homemade ovalizing"

Question: Could this be Columbus MINIMAX? I found one source that says MINIMAX was only made for Merckx and never (or very sparsely) available to other builders (?!)

Dropouts are (very pretty) Columbus with the dove symbol cast in.

can anyone shed light on this?

mstateglfr 

I havent the slightest idea who made the frame, but just wanted to highlight the less than common curves on the head tube lugs. The sockets for the top tube and down tube arent a constant radius and are straight lines on the side.
Perhaps that is a necessary design because of the tubing?...but if not and it is a signature of the builder, maybe that will help narrow down who made it.

Charliekeet

Jicafold may be able to weigh in re: Minimax. I’ve never had any kind of Max tubing frame, so idk, but I think he did. Very cool!

P!N20

I don't think that's true, although they don't come up much, there are plenty of non-EMC examples of Minimax. I was eyeing off a Minimax frame built by Sorenson in Australia - that's a long way from Belgium. Unfortunately it was the wrong size so had to let it go.

Anyway, you could check your tube sizes against the Minimax data:

shuru421

Post more pictures of the frame as a whole.

martl

This is a spec sheet I found online - almost a match,looking at the dimensions?


this is what I have right now (it's night here) - can make some better ones of the stripped frame tomorrow!

shuru421

Yes, that could possibly be a MiniMax frame. 1 thing..please relieve it from that current build..does not do it justice.

martl

I liked the way it rode,and I wanted a Fixie with some NJS parts at that time... The pics in the first post are the current state,it will get a nice paint job in Porsche frozen blue, and a Campagnolo Athena graphite groupset.

CyclesMakaron

Minimax was not custom-built for EMC
EMC did not build the frames with Columbus Minimax
In the kit produced for EMC (Columbus Mxl) only TT came from Minimax (and was assembled in reverse)

aceves 

Hi martl ,

Have you considered Columbus EGO tubing? Perhaps your frame is built with this tubing. You say ovalized, but not quite MAX tubing. I have a Concorde frame with Columbus EGO tubing, but my top tube is oval on the vertical at both ends (at head tube and seat tube lugs). Same with down tube, oval on the vertical at both ends. Just wanted to throw this suggestion out there. Hope you figure out your tubing.

aceves

martl

i haven't, will look into it But i'm sure it is Minimax, as all the measurements match. And i got the sticker applied, so it must be true (still neeeds some clear coat)

Lattz

Hello (oder Hallo) Martl, lange nicht "gesehen". Hope you are doing well. Ever since this thread went live I wanted to spill you my tip, which is Vetta as manufacturer, and this is a badge engineered Elltico model (which as Vetta would come with and without lugs as well, somtimes bearing "Ellittico" panto'd on the seat stay). Also the "Adidas stripe" on the BB is something they use as well, on other Ellitticos can be seen on the head lugs. Check this out, I guess its rather similar to yours, (actually just found this to check once more before I write you, and the Oria decal puzzles me as so far I've seen Col. SL's - looks like Antoino was making Max before it existed), Vetta Ellittico Classic Steel Road Frameset & Parts 1980s (steel-vintage.com) I based my opinion on other pics from other forums, like this >SOLD< 1980s Vetta/Sorgente Columbus SL Ellittico (ovalised), size 57 ctc **£180** | LFGSS. Also on one italian forum a guy was searching decals for a "max lookalike Learco Guerra" and claimed that Antonio Taverna confirmed its from him. You can do the same at info@vetta.it, he answered really nicely to my google tranlator'd message on a Max frame. Hope this helps.

Take care and Best regards, Lattz

unworthy1

[QUOTE=Lattz;22523357]Also the "Adidas stripe" on the BB is something they use as well, /QUOTE]
That is a Silva investment-cast BB shell, used by many builders in this timeframe.