umd

It is still agreeing with what I said. Palatability refers to you wanting to drink it. IF YOU DRINK IT, it still has the same effect. Your body still uses it the same regardless of the temperature.

GeorgePaul

Work is related to the distance a force moves an object and not the time it takes to move the object. See https://www.ac.wwu.edu/~vawter/PhysicsNet/Topics/Work/DefinitionWork.html

umd

Work can also be defined as power x time.

Anybody serious about training defines their workouts by the amount of time they are done for. That's why we say things like 2x20 at threshold or 5x5 VO2. How far you go is incidental. If you have an hour to ride and you go at a specific intensity you get the same workout regardless of how heavy your bike is. If you are doing your workouts on a fixed course and you have a heavier bike, one of two things (or some combination thereof) will happen: 1) you will go slower, or 2) you will go harder. If you were already working as hard as you could, then of course you will just go slower and the workout will take longer. So in that sense you will have done more total work, but there is no reason you couldn't have then just used a lighter bike and ridden extra distance in the time you saved. So in the end, all that matters is the time that you spend and the intensity doing it. The weight of the bike and the distance that you travel is completely irrelevant.

Edit: It should be noted that the effect of extra weight on training is mostly psychological, and psychological factors should not be discounted entirely. Get the most out of training often involves efforts that are uncomfortable, and motivation can be a huge factor when it hurts and you just want to stop. If you have a heavier bike it can be easier mentally to push hard because you don't have any alternative. However, if you are capable of that effort with a heavier bike, you are capable of that effort with a lighter bike, as long as you have the willpower/motivation to keep going hard and not back off just because you can.

This comes full circle to the other discussion about the temp of the water. The water will have the same effect on the body's hydration regardless of the temperature as long as you drink the water, but the motivation to drink the water may be lacking if it is warm. Just as the motivation to do the hard effort may be lacking with a lighter bike. But make no mistake, the workout's "goodness" is defined by the effort done, not the weight, and the hydration effect of water is defined by the volume consumed, not the temperature.

kuf

^^^
All I have to say is to look at my signature.

kuf

On longer rides, I like to have a protein drink and a carb-only drink. I will drink the protein drink when I get hungry, and drink the carb drink during more intense efforts.

^oZ

How thirsty are you?

More weight = slower.

GeorgePaul

Power is the instantaneous rate of work being done or energy expended at a given point in time. The total work done or energy expended moving an item from point A to point B has nothing to do with how long it took. It takes twice as much energy to move a 10 lb weight 100 ft than it takes to move a 5 lb weight 100 ft, completely independent of the amount of time involved.

Pedaleur

It's all a matter of how you structure your training: Time intervals or distance intervals. If you do time intervals, you'll do less distance with a heavier bike, but the same work. If you do distance intervals, you'll take more time and do more work.

umd does time intervals.

Capisci?

Pedaleur

Nicely tied together. Bonus points for umd.

By the way, i generally take two bottles, one with sports drink, the other plain water. Except in the winter, when I forego the plain water, since I don't need as much hydration, and the water just freezes anyway.

Pedaleur

P.S. Work can also be calculated from the time integral of power.

Jim from Boston

My preference for water is flavored carbonated water. It comes in one liter bottles with a screw top cap to contain the carbonation. It's inconvenient to open especially while riding, but it's so much more refreshing than plain water, even and especially when warm. On a ride of 40 to 60 miles if warm out I would bring three. For a ride of 70 or more I would bring my maximum of four; two in water bottle cages and two in my rear trunk bag. The liter bottles fit tightly in the cages and I secure them with a rubber band to prevent them from popping out.

The local brand here around Boston is Polar Seltzer and it comes in a lot of flavors and my favorites include black cherry, pomegranate and vanilla. I'm only doing my 14 mile commute this winter and this morning it's sloppy, wet and 32* F so it's pleasant to think about those upcoming nice weather rides. My two cents worth.

guadzilla

Camelbak ftw.

stonecrd

I always plan 24oz per hour, if I don't need it fine but not having it when you do need it is a much bigger problem.

saratoga

Bike holds two, might as well take two. Whether or not I'll suck both down in 1-2 hours depends. I sweat like hell and in the summer usually go through two 24oz bottles per hour. When it's cooler, not so much.

Most hour trainer sessions require two bottles since most of it ends up in a puddle on the floor via the faucet in my head and I still end up dehydrated as evidenced by the lightheaddedness upon standing later on after the ride.

roccobike

I carry 1 bottle under 50F, 2 above 50F and 2 bottles plus a waist pak above 90F (unless the ride is supported, then I back off to 2 bottles).

Steve in MA

+1

Unless it's purely a utility ride around town, I generally carry two 24oz bottles. One filled with water, the other with slightly watered down Gatorade. I'd rather have more fluids than I may need for a particular ride than be out on some deserted back road wishing there was a convenience store to be found.

umd

And also, given the same amount of work, it will take longer to move the 10 lb weight 100 ft.

Consider that a person does not have an unlimited capacity to do work. We only have so much power we can output at any given moment without getting too tired to continue. Given a certiain power (i.e. a rate of work) and a certain time, you can move more weight less distance or less weight more distance. Whether you calculate it by time or by distance it all has to stay in balance. So again, in smaller words so that people like you can understand, if you do less work to cover a certain distance because your bike is lighter, you can *gasp* ride extra distance in the time you saved and end up doing the same amount of work.

instigator

Anything over 40 miles gets two 24oz bottles.

hipcheck5

Keep in mind that in cold weather you are sweating as much, if not more, as in hot weather but it evaporates quicker, you also lose a lot of water from breathing. Use as much water in the cold as you would in the heat.

umd

That's a myth.

That is somewhat true, but it's really more about humidity than temperature.

It's a good idea remember to pay attention to your hydration, but not to just automatically always drink the same volume.

chevy42083

1 bottle per 30miles. I almost never finish it.
Everyone I ride with usually wants a break sometime between 20-30, so I'll top off.

I only have one cage, and generally don't like them in my jersey pockets. I'll stop once every 30mi so I can avoid that discomfort, and get COLD water/gatorade.

Grumpy McTrumpy

frakkin internet experts


some of you need to be reminded of the scientific method before pontificating about science.

bretgross

I think your late grandma knew the same folks that mine did.

Always two: one water, one Cytomax. If longer than 60 miles, 2 bottles with Cytomax and the Camelback with water.

Grumpy McTrumpy

here's an experiment you can try at home:

1. get on your rollers/trainer in winter when the room is 50˚F. Place a plastic sheet under the apparatus
2. ride at power P for time T
3. collect the sweat from the plastic sheet and pour it into a beaker. this will be volume S
4. repeat the entire experiment at ambient temperature 75˚F. Compare S.

5. do this as many times as possible to average out variances in body hydration and inconsistent sweat-gathering.

LesterOfPuppets

I rode 40 miles in the rain over the weekend and didn't bring a bottle at all. I was well hydrated beforehand and had a litre of mineral water when I got home.
100 mile ride through mostly populated areas, I'll bring one 1-litre bottle, refill 2 or 3 times.
50 mile ride in summer through the desert, I'll bring one 1-litre bottle liquid and a frozen 2-litre bottle.