cudak888 

NOTE: Thread previously entitled "Tell me about Leo...". The post below starts the saga straight from the moment I bought this frame at an LBS, along with a little tour of the shop.

This is "Leo." Leo is a 1960's-ish Bottecchia frameset with some more modern braze-ons, a CyclArt repaint...and he's all mine now. The goal is to build a neo-retro porteur with it. And why not? It's been modified enough already that it's not quite pure to anything anymore.

P.S.: At the time, I didn't know it was a 1960's Bottecchia, and the headbadge is the same as the Leo badge referenced later in this thread.

cudak888 

I’m starting to wonder if that headbadge was just plopped on that frame. Can’t find any evidence of such a brand (!)

There’s also a Zunow frameset here in bare steel, and a crashed funnybike that was cheaply chromed at one time. I’m going nuts in this shop - in the best way ever.

-Kurt

cudak888 

Peugeot-badged Stronglight 104. Beautiful, and looks older than it is (and way overpriced, even without the Rino pedals).



Nice Nuovo crankset:

cudak888 

Better headbadge pic of the "Leo" Bottechia:

malcala622

@cudak888 Whats the story on the 7-Eleven EM?

merziac

And @cudak888,

is the seatube aero or just me?

malcala622

Just the angle and lighting.

merziac

Yeah, I figured.

cudak888 

Recent repaint. $750 clams

Nope, just a standard, round seattube.

-Kurt

cudak888 

I’m loaded up with frame trade bait for tomorrow:

SurferRosa

about that stem, Colonel Kurtz is thinking, "the horror ... the horror."

cudak888 

Colonel Kurtz is the owner of the shop, and probably did that stem himself.

There are a gazillion International frames around that shop in all sorts of states - fully chromed, that blue one up there, two stock...none of them particularly nice.

-Kurt

Charles Wahl

This might be a help:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131757...57630922118844
Photos aren't mine, but seller's. I bought the frame, and built it up for my son. Also repainted by Cyclart. Top-of-seat-tube lug is different, and no chrome, but the rest looks about the same. And it has a Bottecchia-branded headset in great condition, bonus.

cudak888 

Concur; serial number around the seattube makes sense too. This one may pre-date yours, as it has the same headset lubrication port as this one: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...hia-bikes.html

Can't seem to find these lugs associated with anything else other than the low-end Bottecchia Spcial though, and the Campagnolo 1010's and nice stay ends between both these bikes indicate that there's something more to it than just a base Special.

EDIT: Someone in the thread above put it at '55-64. No justification provided though.

Also found @Kommisar89's '59 Milano-Sanremo: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...hia-frame.html

-Kurt

Charles Wahl

I didn't think the frame was low-end. It weighs under 3.1 kg, the same as early '70s Raleigh International or Competition, Motobécane Le Champion, and Bob Jackson frames with similar tubesets.

cudak888 

No worries Charles, in the excitement, I didn't clarify: It's way too easy to do a Google search only to find the low-end Specials wearing these lugs - not that the lugs are an indicator of quality. It seems as if these lugs may get an undeserved rap since Bottecchia threw them on the Special during the 1970's.

That said, there's nothing low end about these earlier frames, from the looks of it. It's just difficult to know what one is looking at. Yours is one of these nice frames, as is the "Leo" Bottecchia, but there's precious little to go on with these. @Kommisar89 apparently has a chromed frame which shares these lugs and the 1010 dropouts, along with the grease/oiling port: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...hia-frame.html, and @ldmataya seems to have a pipeline into dating these things: https://www.bikeforums.net/19337562-post5.html

-Kurt

cudak888 

Off to the shop soon. He's asking $250 for that Bottecchia frame. Fingers crossed I can get him down a bit.

-Kurt

cudak888 

It’s mine now, and a Raleigh Professional Mark IV has come along for the ride .

I've also offered to cold-set the bent rear triangle of the chrome funnybike shown here as well.

ldmataya 

I piped up awhile back with an opinion on the Leo Bottecchia, so @cudak888 asked me to back up that seemingly authoritarian claim

My story is I've been a fan of these for awhile. I own a 1969 Special, a 1972 Giro D'Italia, a NOS 1989 Equipe with C-Record, and an early 1950's Tipo Giro D'Italia (Tipo or "model" was a common prefix used by Italia manufacturers pre bike boom). The first three were easy to date, especially because I purchased the Special new. The older one is my estimate (1950-1954) based on the components that were on it when I acquired it, and the fact that I have yet to see any Bottecchia made after 1955 with these particular head lugs (see Flickr album link below). Now, back when ebay was a relatively new thing, I was fortunate enough to invest around the IPO - so I was watching the company and the auctions for bikes closely. In those early years there were three outstanding Bottecchia items that came up that I noticed. I was able to purchase one of the three. The other two were late 1950's complete bikes, one original and one restored. Had I been smart, I would have archived those photos. One that was claimed to be a 1959 Giro D'Italia had a seat tube very similar to my old one (chromed panel with decal) and lugs very similar to the Leo. I also recall seeing similar lugs in a couple of models claimed to be early 1960s. Once the bike boom Bottecchia's started to show up in the US, we don't see that style of lug to my knowledge - but many other carryovers did come along like half chromed stays and chromed head tube lugs. Hence - my claim that the Leo style looks to be somewhere between 1955 and start of the bike boom.

Flickr album of early 50s Tipo Giro D'Italia:
https://flic.kr/s/aHsmETCHxd

cudak888 

Interesting observations.

I found that this lug does seem to show up on some of the earlier, bottom-end Bottecchia specials, which made me a bit concerned at first, but the fork crown and Campagnolo drops throughout helped to alleviate these fears.

I'm pretty sure we're looking at the early 1960's with Leo,as it is wearing closed "C" Campagnolo 1010 drops. My '61 Schwinn Paramount, by comparison, wears the open "C." I'm not sure when the hole for the Campagnolo Sport derailer was dropped, but Leo does have it.

Pity we don't have a '60s Bottecchia catalog kicking about.

-Kurt

MauriceMoss

@cudak888 - I like the Leo! Do you have a head-on closeup shot of that head badge that you could post? The reason I'm asking is that I've never seen an actual Leo head badge, only a drawing.

Here is a copy of a patent application for a bicycle brand called Leo that was filed by Teodoro Carinelli. I have no idea what the history of that sub-brand is, but since there are essentially no examples online, it probably wasn't long lived (it may even have been an export only type label?).




Anyways, your Leo looks like a nice bike.

In case you haven't seen them yet, here are two more Bottecchias (with one being perhaps a little older than your Leo):

* From a recent ID thread





* One for sale in Italy

cudak888 

Maurice, I never thought the thread would take this direction, as I was starting to believe the Leo badge might have not even originated with a bicycle. But - with some slight differences, mainly Carinelli's name and the shape of the badge - that's the logo, no doubt about it. I'll post closeups in a second.

The badge holes do line up with the Bottecchia frame, so I'm not sure what to believe at this point regarding this specific frame.

Those two Bottechias in your photos look about the same if you examine them as frames only. Brown one looks to be a repaint with a later Sugino mid-range crankset on it, probably a 1970's upgrade from the cottered crank (which looks like a Stronglight, but I'm pretty sure it isn't), but the lugwork and frame details match up with the rest.

If there only wasn't such a wide range of years associated with these. About the only thing that seems as if it could help with dating is the serial (except no serial charts exist) and the deletion of the grease port at the back of the headtube (date unknown). EDIT: Headbadge holes may be an indicator; just noticed the Italian frame has them on the sides.

-Kurt

cudak888 

bikemig 

Heck I would have bought that bike for the head badge. Nice score.

If I had a bike shop like that near me, I'd be broke by now,

stardognine

Roger that, nice grab. 👍 And roger on being broke all the time, if that stuff's too close. 🙄😉
What's the deal on that Cannondale, with the "unique" stem? That colorway rocks, with a better stem. 😎