Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational)
Reload this Page >

Kona Sutra 2020 vs All City Gorilla Monsoon

Notices
Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational) This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like : "Unbound Gravel". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

Kona Sutra 2020 vs All City Gorilla Monsoon

Old 10-13-19, 05:05 PM
  #1  
pickleslips
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Kona Sutra 2020 vs All City Gorilla Monsoon

Hey guys,

I'm new to touring / gravel biking and i'm looking for a flexible all rounder bike that can handle road touring/ bikepacking and get off road for some solid gravel, fire trail and maybe some single track. I've got it down to these two bikes, but i'm really stuck on deciding...

The Sutra has way more flexibility with tyre sizes as it comes with a 700c 50 and could still fit a 650b 2.4 but the All City Gorilla Monsoon maxes out at around 700c 43 and comes with the 650b 2.4. Sutra is a bit more stable with a longer wheelbase too, but would be less easy & fun to throw around.
I test rode them both, and indeed the Sutra is stable and nimble on the road, and a joy to ride, but the Gorilla was easier to throw around and felt a bit more fun, but might get annoying on long road rides. Felt a bit cheaper too, but coming from a BMX background I really quite liked the playful manner of it.

Parts list goes to the Sutra hands down. The hydraulic brakes are great and the Sutras brakes are garbage.
The GM is 'cooler' and a bit more unique, which accounts for nothing but is still attractive unfortunately.

I dunno, i'm kind of paralysed for choice and looking for long term riders opinions to help out.

Thanks
pickleslips is offline  
Old 10-13-19, 06:07 PM
  #2  
BillinPA
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Western, PA
Posts: 62

Bikes: Specialized Diverge Smartweld,Specialized Sirrus Sport, Townie 7D, Specialized crave comp 29er

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
I recently bought a Gorilla Monsoon. Have about 150 miles on it. I love it. It has a great ride with the 650b wheels. I changed the tires to 650 x47 Pathfinder pros. I changed the calipers to trp spyre.

My other bike is a Specialized Sequoia that I really like but the Gorilla does edge it out
BillinPA is offline  
Old 10-13-19, 06:09 PM
  #3  
pickleslips
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by BillinPA
I recently bought a Gorilla Monsoon. Have about 150 miles on it. I love it. It has a great ride with the 650b wheels. I changed the tires to 650 x47 Pathfinder pros. I changed the calipers to trp spyre.

My other bike is a Specialized Sequoia that I really like but the Gorilla does edge it out
Great! What kind of riding? All gravel or a mix? Yeah, once you swap out the brakes it becomes a bit more expensive than the Sutra LTD which specs it out, but that GM frame is really calling my name...
pickleslips is offline  
Old 10-13-19, 06:59 PM
  #4  
BillinPA
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Western, PA
Posts: 62

Bikes: Specialized Diverge Smartweld,Specialized Sirrus Sport, Townie 7D, Specialized crave comp 29er

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Mixed riding, lots of paved, but gravel is part of it. The brake switch was my choice. The Hayes just were not my favorite. The tires stock, rock in the gravel but are kinda loud and slowish on pavement.
I'm surprised by all the positive comments I get from others. Including the police officer who issues me a warning ticket for 24 in a 15 on a bike trail LOL. The paint and styling of the GM are outstanding.
BillinPA is offline  
Old 10-13-19, 07:30 PM
  #5  
pickleslips
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Going too fast, good problem lol. Seems like such a fun bike, just not sure if it's going to be my only bike if it'll be a bit too specific. I'll be in Tasmania though, so lots of good trail riding down there.
pickleslips is offline  
Old 10-14-19, 02:10 AM
  #6  
BillinPA
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Western, PA
Posts: 62

Bikes: Specialized Diverge Smartweld,Specialized Sirrus Sport, Townie 7D, Specialized crave comp 29er

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Tasmania sounds great. Another set of tires and up to wheels, can make it a different bike.
BillinPA is offline  
Old 10-14-19, 02:09 PM
  #7  
gus6464
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,235
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 353 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 92 Times in 67 Posts
I might be biased because I have a Kona Rove but the Sutra is an awesome frame. I was about to buy it over the Rove ST but didn't want to get an MTB crank.
gus6464 is offline  
Old 10-14-19, 07:02 PM
  #8  
Clem von Jones
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 660
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 16 Posts
The Sutra LTD has the best geometry of any mass-produced 29er in my humble opinion. I'm going to buy a used one someday when they're forgotten and unwanted. There aren't many well-designed rigid 29er frames aside from the Kona. I've looked. A lot.
Clem von Jones is offline  
Old 10-14-19, 07:57 PM
  #9  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,538

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10902 Post(s)
Liked 7,393 Times in 4,148 Posts
Originally Posted by Clem von Jones
The Sutra LTD has the best geometry of any mass-produced 29er in my humble opinion. I'm going to buy a used one someday when they're forgotten and unwanted. There aren't many well-designed rigid 29er frames aside from the Kona. I've looked. A lot.
A sutra ltd for me has a 71degree HTA with 50mm fork offset, 72degree STA, 72mm of BB drop, 445mm chainstays, and a 648mm front center.

I have a mountain bike, but admittedly dont geek on them. Can you explain how these numbers make for the best 29er geometry? I've seen similar numbers they the years for 29ers and have seen a move away from them too.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 10-14-19, 09:57 PM
  #10  
pickleslips
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The Sutra LTD sure did feel smooth and stable, but just worried it's a bit long I guess but as i've never had a 'good' bike outside of BMXes, i'm not sure what i'm going to value in the long run. The stability & comfort of the Sutra, or the playfulness of the Gorilla Monsoon. The paint on the 2020 of the Sutra LTD is amazing as well, but the All City looks more exciting.

How do you guys even buy a bike, it's doing my head in!
pickleslips is offline  
Old 10-15-19, 09:38 AM
  #11  
shoota 
Senior Member
 
shoota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Stillwater, OK
Posts: 8,128
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1871 Post(s)
Liked 689 Times in 467 Posts
Originally Posted by pickleslips

How do you guys even buy a bike, it's doing my head in!
Easy, we buy BIKES. Plural. lol
__________________
2014 Cannondale SuperSix EVO 2
2019 Salsa Warbird
shoota is offline  
Likes For shoota:
Old 10-15-19, 05:25 PM
  #12  
pickleslips
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by shoota
Easy, we buy BIKES. Plural. lol
haha, what am I getting myself into...
pickleslips is offline  
Old 10-15-19, 05:47 PM
  #13  
gus6464
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,235
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 353 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 92 Times in 67 Posts
Honestly the 2 things that would make me go for the Gorilla Monsoon is:

15mm front thru axle - this allows you to use the plethora of 27.5 mtb wheels out there which are dirt cheap
internal dropper seatpost routing
gus6464 is offline  
Old 10-16-19, 09:45 AM
  #14  
wsteve464
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 561
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 161 Post(s)
Liked 71 Times in 62 Posts
Whichever one has hydro discs
wsteve464 is offline  
Old 10-16-19, 12:12 PM
  #15  
gus6464
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,235
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 353 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 92 Times in 67 Posts
BTW both build kits on the Sutra and GM are garbage. You can buy the frame and put together a bike with a way better build kit for same kind of coin.

For example merlin has 105 R7020 hydro full groupset for $600. You can get a set of DT Swiss/Syncros 27.5 wheels on ebay for ~$200. Add a cockpit of your choice and you got a build for $2k that is considerably better.

Last edited by gus6464; 10-16-19 at 12:17 PM.
gus6464 is offline  
Old 10-17-19, 05:57 AM
  #16  
SilverRubicon
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked 19 Times in 14 Posts
Originally Posted by gus6464
BTW both build kits on the Sutra and GM are garbage. You can buy the frame and put together a bike with a way better build kit for same kind of coin.

For example merlin has 105 R7020 hydro full groupset for $600. You can get a set of DT Swiss/Syncros 27.5 wheels on ebay for ~$200. Add a cockpit of your choice and you got a build for $2k that is considerably better.
So with you're at $1400 with your build for groupset, wheels, and frame. Then you have to add in bottom bracket, handlebar, stem, bar tape, headset, axles, grease, cables, brake tubing, pedals, saddle, seatpost, tires, tubes, valve stems, not to mention time in building and tuning. You just can't discount everything in a build.

Last edited by SilverRubicon; 10-17-19 at 06:00 AM.
SilverRubicon is offline  
Old 10-17-19, 01:02 PM
  #17  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,538

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10902 Post(s)
Liked 7,393 Times in 4,148 Posts
Originally Posted by Spoonrobot
Which makes sense, if the items available at retail can be put together for the same cost as a production complete - one or the other is priced wrong. No one's going to beat QBP at pricing unless they over-invest in time and effort.
Yes, usually the fully built bike is cheaper due to scale creating purchase power.
You mentioned QBP though and I have found that at least a couple bikes are not price competitive with what could be purchased at online retail prices. ZigZag being the latest.

https://allcitycycles.com/bikes/zig_zag_105 $2700.

Because im a nerd and am not motivated today, I spent 15min looking on Merlin and came up with a built that costs $2725 and all components are as good as whats on the ZigZag or better(lighter usually). I used as much from Merlin as possible to show that time/effort wasnt over-invested. I am confident that if I actually looked around using ebay and other online retailers, I could make a build specifically for me that would cost less than $2700. And keep in mind that many will swap the saddle and/or stem off the ZigZag then buy new ones which ups the true cost of the full build. My scenario provides many saddle, stem, and bar tape options at or less than the component I picked, while still being good quality.

mstateglfr is offline  
Old 10-17-19, 05:03 PM
  #18  
csrpenfab
Full Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 210
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 76 Post(s)
Liked 99 Times in 57 Posts
Interesting take on adding up all of the parts cost vs. factory build. That's what drove me to the Niner RLT 9 RDO 4 star build for $2800 at Excel Sports. At that price, I couldn't buy the Ultegra group and other components, so it was like getting the excellent frame/fork for free.
csrpenfab is offline  
Likes For csrpenfab:
Old 10-17-19, 07:25 PM
  #19  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,538

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10902 Post(s)
Liked 7,393 Times in 4,148 Posts
Originally Posted by Spoonrobot
Spreadsheet based responses are the best responses.
The 105 hydraulic group comes with rotors if you want. There are 5 or 6 options. You pick the RD length, band or no band on the FD, cassette size, and crank details. Each adds a bit to the cost and that's listed as the total.

I didn't realize Shimano hydraulic shifters arent set up, but it makes sense due to internal routing.
I've purchased hydraulic mtb brakes and they were all set up out of the package. Bleeding hadn't crossed my mind.

And yes of course some tools are needed. I disagree with adding that to the price of a specific bike though. Most of the tools are useful thru the life of the bike and I consider to just be part of bike ownership, but I also do my maintenance. Instead of buying a guide and saw, cutting the steerer costs $10 at my local shop so i would guess $10-20 is a common range. Thats about the only tool that is 1 time use.

The price I mentioned was after a handful of minutes looking and mostly using a single website. Stretched across the internet, there will be better for less too.

I love the fades and steel/carbon mix of All City bikes. The geometry and frame shapes are great too. Damn sharp looking and is the coolest brand I can think of, at least to me.

But when a random schlub in Iowa can build as good a bike or actually better for the same or slightly more $, as you mention- something is imbalanced.
It appears to me their Whiskey branded cockpit is simply too expensive. Its all premium prices without the benefit of weight drop or tech compared to cheaper options. So even when they price those components for less on a full build, they are still more expensive than comparable or lighter alternatives.

Apologies for the wordiness, I geek on industry and pricing discussions.
And the bleed kit is a very valid point that wasnt considered.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 10-18-19, 05:24 AM
  #20  
shelbyfv
Expired Member
 
shelbyfv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 11,462
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3638 Post(s)
Liked 5,318 Times in 2,703 Posts
I miss Nashbar/Performance
shelbyfv is offline  
Old 10-18-19, 09:59 AM
  #21  
gus6464
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,235
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 353 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 92 Times in 67 Posts
Almost all of my tools are jenson's in house brand foundation and they work great. Also what hydro cable are you cutting that it needs a $60 cutter? I use the standard shifter cable cutter which I got for $10 with no issues. I have cut Shimano, Magura, and SRAM hydro cables with it.

A crown race depending on which headset you have may or may not need a tool. If you need a tool use PVC pipe. All the tools except for maybe a headset press are things that most riders should have anyway to wrench on their bikes unless you taking the bike to the LBS for even the simplest stuff.
gus6464 is offline  
Likes For gus6464:
Old 10-19-19, 12:48 PM
  #22  
BillinPA
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Western, PA
Posts: 62

Bikes: Specialized Diverge Smartweld,Specialized Sirrus Sport, Townie 7D, Specialized crave comp 29er

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by Spoonrobot
No apology necessary these discussions are more interesting than a lot of what gets posted here. Good points I think we both see where each other is coming from.

I've never seen a lot of Whisky stuff in person, I guess it's not popular around my area. When was looking around online it's obvious they're a brand searching for esteem. So much of their stuff is oddly expensive - as you mentioned. I think this is part in due to the folding of both Nashbar and Performance Bike - these two were doing enough lower-price business that it was keeping the cost of things like carbon forks significantly lower then they would be otherwise. Most of the current crop of retailers are more interested in getting MAP, buying products from OEM houses and so forth. Lots of Nashbar/Performance stuff was unique in that they had the volume to custom order a lot of good items for low(er) prices. Hell they had a tapered full-carbon gravel fork coming that was supposed to be ~$150 retail. Comparable models are upwards of $250.

I do wonder how close to MSRP All-City bikes tend to go from a physical store? I only know one dealer in person and they were tight lipped about actual sale price last time I asked.
I bought my Gorilla Monsoon from my local Specialized dealer. He stocks Specialized and Trek. He ordered it in came in a few days. No mark-up over MSRP.
BillinPA is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.