CliffordK

My guess is that at least half of the Strava uses are using a phone app.

Also keep in mind that many of the Garmin devices are set to record every 5 seconds or so, and thus are less accurate for comparing rides on fixed segments.

But, it may be a point that fewer users are actually using the phone + a bunch of external sensors.

I wonder if the issue is as much hacking (or perceived hacking risk). Figure out a way to hack your sensor to show twice the power, or half the heart rate?

drewguy

That's easier to do if you're uploading a gpx file (or similar) recorded in another app.

If Strava cared about fabricated results on segments they'd use some pretty basic algorithms to flag suspicious results. As it is now they don't even bother to detect obvious recordings that are (partially) in a car (e.g., rider averages 15-16mph for 1 hour, then all of a sudden hits 40mph for 30 minutes, in bursts, while HR is low).

Seattle Forrest

It's not even possible to set a Garmin to record a point every 5 seconds.

CliffordK

Somehow, the segments that show a faster average speed than maximum speed are usually done on Garmins.

https://www.strava.com/segments/12973075
https://www.strava.com/activities/258703543#16784982100

Rider X, "KOM"

Average speed, 34.2 MPH
Maximum speed, 34.0 MPH

Device: Garmin Edge 200

Now, go to the Analysis page, and look at the estimated power. A point is marked about every 5 seconds.

The problem is that the beginning and end points become extremely inaccurate.

The average speed for the segment on the Analysis page is listed as 32.6, and would put the rider at least at #2 , and very close to dropping down to #4 . Note, that KOM was captured JRA, but speeds naturally increase at the beginning and drop at the end due to terrain, so adding the missing points would significantly change the time/speed.

Here is a test of riding around in circles on a track with an older Garmin.

https://www.singletracks.com/blog/gp...dedicated-gps/



Note the Garmin is inevitably cutting the corners.

Now, it could be possible that due to complaints, Garmin has chosen to use more data points on their newer devices.

CliffordK

Sometimes it can be tough to discern with certainty if a person is on a bus or car. But, another feature I've noticed is the uniformity of speed. Without a power meter, if you look at estimated power, it usually is a very jagged line.

In a car, it is usually a flat line.

My interpretation is that every pedal stroke involves a micro acceleration/deceleration. And, recording points is accurate enough to pick up that variability. Presumably some riders are worse than others with that, but the change in acceleration pattern is often a sign of riding in a vehicle.

Sometimes it can be a tough call if a person simply drives a mile or so in a car which happens to pick up a segment. Were they cruising, then sprinting?

Seattle Forrest

I don't doubt that Strava's software estimates power every 5 seconds, but, again, it's not possible to set a Garmin to record a point every 5 seconds. Go play with one, go into the recording interval menu, and see for yourself.

Edit to add: Anyway, this is way off topic. The thread isn't about segments and play racing, it's about using BT sensors. Let's not clutter it, people are looking for information.

MinnMan

This sucks. Strava's message (copied in full below so everybody has the facts), implies that there are other apps one can use to record the sensor data on your phone. Quoting "But if you want to record activities using your phone and capture sensor data, you’ll have to record with one of the many apps that upload to Strava. Here are some tips to get you started. " However, I can find no such information on the linked page, which is about other devices (e.g., watches) that can be used. Are there actually any phone apps that can be used and that can then be uploaded to Strava?



Full text of their email, received yesterday:

Dear (Minnman),
When you record a workout on Strava, it’s our job to make sure your effort is captured accurately and reliably. We recently discovered that pairing Bluetooth heart rate monitors and power meters directly with the app is causing Strava to crash for millions of athletes — most of whom don’t even use these kinds of sensors. So to significantly improve the stability of the app, we’ll no longer support direct Bluetooth and ANT+ device pairing as of October 28th, 2019.

If you record activities using a GPS watch or bike computer, this change will not affect you at all. But if you want to record activities using your phone and capture sensor data, you’ll have to record with one of the many apps that upload to Strava. Here are some tips to get you started. We know that even small changes in your routine or equipment can make a big difference, so we appreciate your understanding.

And if you’re feeling ready to try recording on a watch instead of your phone, our friends at Polar are generously offering 20% off their Polar Vantage line until the end of October 2019, exclusively for Strava athletes who have used direct pairing in the past.* Take a look at their lineup and use this personal, one-time use code at checkout: STR-PMNT-CE2M-TP5N

Here’s to your efforts making it into the books. Every time.

The Strava Team

MinnMan

(This seems very off topic for this thread, but would make a good discussion on a stand-alone thread)

I do wonder about this, but I've seen similar strange behavior from friends using Wahoo devices, i.e., for short segments they can get super-fast average speeds (and above their maximum speeds) and KOMs,

If anybody has suggestions about how to toggle headset settings to be more accurate, that would be cool. I generally use a Garmin 520 (though I also use my phone and Strava as a backup, which is why I'm on this thread to begin with).

CliffordK

I've found Strava to have become much more stable over the last year or so than in the past.

I still occasionally get "recovery" messages, but often because I had either accidentally had a button pushed, battery failure (or loose), or even intentionally turned the phone off to conserve power when not in use.

Did Strava deem the crashing is due to simply allowing the functionality, or actually using the added functionality?

If it only crashes with things like HRMs and power meters ,then their conclusion that crashes are affecting millions who don't use the sensors is incorrect.

If it is simply allowing the interface (even if not in use), then Strava & Google/Android needs to come up with a fix.

Poor programming and user support?

Seattle Forrest

Will it sounds like they got an affiliate deal with Polar.

The red part doesn't make any sense. They've discovered today heart rate monitors are causing there app to crash for people who aren't using them??

noisebeam

Lying to customers is a good reason to not do business with them anymore.

kshepherd

Strava has a post on their blog about it. Here is something they also posted to their support forum. https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/...ava-Mobile-App

gregf83 

Well if you signed up for Summit based on recording HR I would ask for a refund. I suspect they wouldn't hesitate to provide a refund. If they don't you could force a chargeback from your CC company.

gregf83 

My guess is they don't have anyone to work on the problem. Their recommended solution is to use the Wahoo fitness app for recording. Presumably Wahoo doesn't crash for millions of users.

kshepherd

Yeah who knows. I just ended up buying a Wahoo Element Bolt, and I've been super happy with that decision. Don't need my phone and can use my cadence sensors, hooking into Di2 was also cool. The only bummer is I have to get a separate heart sensor instead of it just reading from my watch.

DOS

Yes.And if you use a wahoo, garmin or similar computer, you can set it to automatically upload to your strava account and other sites (I use ridewithgps) at the end of your ride. The only time I use Strava app while actually riding is if I forget to charge my computer.

Seattle Forrest

Does Ride With GPS have an iPhone version?

Post 6.

John_V 

Yes! And a version for an iPad as well.

bobwysiwyg

Somewhat related to this issue, can my accumulated Strava history be downloaded and transferred to another app? All the research I've done thus far shows numerous ways to transfer data to Strava but not from Strava's to another app.

MinnMan

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kevinmu.../#527c8d5e5d72

JohnJ80

I still think they are missing the point in this article as well. Strava sees who records what ride with what device. It’s pretty easy to make the decision to say that support isn’t worth the market share if (as I posit) the number of riders that actually record data more than position and speed (i.e. HRM, power, etc...) on the actual Strava app is vanishingly small. If that’s true, I’d drop it too or charge more for it.

J

drewguy

From each activity if you click the 3 dots at bottom of the column on the left (on website), you can export GPX files (which you can then import into various apps). I don't know if there's a bulk export feature.

noisebeam

There is a bulk export under 'My Account' ... "Download or Delete Account'

https://www.strava.com/account

I do this about 2x/yr just in case.

Mine is zipped at about 800MB and contains a lot of images.

bobwysiwyg

Noise/Drew: thanks for the info.

Seattle Forrest

I would love to see that data!