Drawing my Frame
03-07-20, 06:55 AM
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Drawing my Frame
Now that my frame is complete and ready for paint I think I will install the headset and then lay it on my bench and make a full size drawing.
The reason. I want to start sketching up some ideas for a rear rack.
Any tips for doing a drawing?
Thanks!
The reason. I want to start sketching up some ideas for a rear rack.
Any tips for doing a drawing?
Thanks!
03-07-20, 07:34 AM
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Seems like you have the order backwards; drawing should come before building the frame. Regardless, I like to draw a line towards the bottom of your paper which represents a centerline passing though the axles. You can then support your frame over the paper making sure the front and rear dropouts are centered over the line and then go from there. Using a 90 degree triangle abutting against the frame tubes will allow you transfer the actual frame shape from the frame down to the paper.
03-07-20, 08:03 AM
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The frame was "designed" in class based on my old Velo Orange Polyvent & my Soma Grand Randoneur. The dimensions and angles were transferred to the fit bike then to the jig. I want to have a paper drawing for my records and for the rack design.
03-07-20, 01:36 PM
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Tom- Have you any mechanical or drafting experience? Do really need a full size drawing? Why not use the frame as the design foundation? When I make a rack the frame is part of the fixturing and aids in the rack's design/geometry. Andy
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AndrewRStewart
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03-07-20, 03:18 PM
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Andy I do! Also like the idea of having a paper reference for designing the next frame!!
03-07-20, 04:59 PM
#7
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This is because when Tom took my framebuilding class, he used my fixture as a full scale drawing. It serves several purposes. Before he created his frame design, he tweaked his bicycle position on an adjustable fitting bike. This refined his seat/steam/BB relationship that could then be recreated on the fixture using a real seat/seatpost and stem. The pieces that represent each frame tube can slide around to fit where those components are placed. Once positioned, the entire design can be evaluated to see that everything looks right. For example is the top of the head tube high enough so there aren’t too many stackers or spacers? Is there enough toe clearance? It is easy to readjust each piece (angles and lengths) until the design is satisfactory (and perhaps some compromise somewhere is necessary). Much easier then erasing and redrawing on a large sheet of paper.
My fixture also makes it easy to check the accuracy of miters. If one is off a bit the miter can be fine tuned or the fixture can reset until they are within tolerance and agree with each other. The fixture also holds the tubes on the frame design so they can be spotted together. It is a faster, easier and a more secure way than doing a full-scale drawing and then laying tubing blocks on top of the paper. YMMV
When I was learning how to build frames many years ago in England, many builders had this type of fixture.Over the years I’ve added bells and whistles so I didn’t have to use a ruler or protractor for most dimensions.I now have them laser cut and etched out of stainless steel in Ukraine.
This is Tom's frame ready to be spot brazed together.
By putting a frame back in the fixture with its accessories on, it is possible to figure out how to design a rack. The advantage of being in a fixture is that the frame doesn't move around and the picture frame can be used as a reference for keeping the top level.
When I get more time Tom I will write a detailed description of how to take the measurements you recorded of your frame you wrote down in your class manual and turn it into a full scale drawing.
My fixture also makes it easy to check the accuracy of miters. If one is off a bit the miter can be fine tuned or the fixture can reset until they are within tolerance and agree with each other. The fixture also holds the tubes on the frame design so they can be spotted together. It is a faster, easier and a more secure way than doing a full-scale drawing and then laying tubing blocks on top of the paper. YMMV
When I was learning how to build frames many years ago in England, many builders had this type of fixture.Over the years I’ve added bells and whistles so I didn’t have to use a ruler or protractor for most dimensions.I now have them laser cut and etched out of stainless steel in Ukraine.
This is Tom's frame ready to be spot brazed together.
By putting a frame back in the fixture with its accessories on, it is possible to figure out how to design a rack. The advantage of being in a fixture is that the frame doesn't move around and the picture frame can be used as a reference for keeping the top level.
When I get more time Tom I will write a detailed description of how to take the measurements you recorded of your frame you wrote down in your class manual and turn it into a full scale drawing.
Last edited by Doug Fattic; 03-07-20 at 05:04 PM.
03-07-20, 07:09 PM
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I will put in a plug for Doug's course. Fantastic!!!
Thanks for all your help!
Thanks for all your help!
03-08-20, 09:19 AM
#9
framebuilder
This morning I sent Tom by email a long set of instructions on how to take his frame dimensions and turn them into a full size drawing. I'm not sure they have much general application here since those instructions were not how to design a frame on paper but rather how to recreate a design with already known dimensions. If someone else wants to know too I can post those instructions or send them an email too.
There are some pages in my class manual where I have them record each tube they used (not just the brand but all its dimensions like wall thickness and butt lengths) as well as every frame design dimension. Usually this activity has to be encouraged or it won't get done. The purpose is that later when they are riding their frame they may want to make some changes on their next build and they have a record of what they did so they can figure out what to do differently.
The work of a teacher is never really done. I often answer questions from students that took my class long ago. Teachers can have different philosophies on how they approach their responsibilities. One of my most basic ones is that I keep working on explaining and illustrating until something is understood. In other words it is my responsibility to see that knowledge is transferred instead of just expecting the students to "get it" once I've made a decent presentation. Another way of explaining it is that everyone needs to do the quality of work to earn an "A". Getting a B or C or worse is not acceptable and I need to do whatever so they not only leave class with a professional quality frame but also have the background to do that in the future. Of course not everyone has the inherited skills to make wonderful frames so I have to take up some of the slack.
There are some pages in my class manual where I have them record each tube they used (not just the brand but all its dimensions like wall thickness and butt lengths) as well as every frame design dimension. Usually this activity has to be encouraged or it won't get done. The purpose is that later when they are riding their frame they may want to make some changes on their next build and they have a record of what they did so they can figure out what to do differently.
The work of a teacher is never really done. I often answer questions from students that took my class long ago. Teachers can have different philosophies on how they approach their responsibilities. One of my most basic ones is that I keep working on explaining and illustrating until something is understood. In other words it is my responsibility to see that knowledge is transferred instead of just expecting the students to "get it" once I've made a decent presentation. Another way of explaining it is that everyone needs to do the quality of work to earn an "A". Getting a B or C or worse is not acceptable and I need to do whatever so they not only leave class with a professional quality frame but also have the background to do that in the future. Of course not everyone has the inherited skills to make wonderful frames so I have to take up some of the slack.
03-08-20, 01:09 PM
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This morning I sent Tom by email a long set of instructions on how to take his frame dimensions and turn them into a full size drawing. I'm not sure they have much general application here since those instructions were not how to design a frame on paper but rather how to recreate a design with already known dimensions. If someone else wants to know too I can post those instructions or send them an email too.
There are some pages in my class manual where I have them record each tube they used (not just the brand but all its dimensions like wall thickness and butt lengths) as well as every frame design dimension. Usually this activity has to be encouraged or it won't get done. The purpose is that later when they are riding their frame they may want to make some changes on their next build and they have a record of what they did so they can figure out what to do differently.
The work of a teacher is never really done. I often answer questions from students that took my class long ago. Teachers can have different philosophies on how they approach their responsibilities. One of my most basic ones is that I keep working on explaining and illustrating until something is understood. In other words it is my responsibility to see that knowledge is transferred instead of just expecting the students to "get it" once I've made a decent presentation. Another way of explaining it is that everyone needs to do the quality of work to earn an "A". Getting a B or C or worse is not acceptable and I need to do whatever so they not only leave class with a professional quality frame but also have the background to do that in the future. Of course not everyone has the inherited skills to make wonderful frames so I have to take up some of the slack.
There are some pages in my class manual where I have them record each tube they used (not just the brand but all its dimensions like wall thickness and butt lengths) as well as every frame design dimension. Usually this activity has to be encouraged or it won't get done. The purpose is that later when they are riding their frame they may want to make some changes on their next build and they have a record of what they did so they can figure out what to do differently.
The work of a teacher is never really done. I often answer questions from students that took my class long ago. Teachers can have different philosophies on how they approach their responsibilities. One of my most basic ones is that I keep working on explaining and illustrating until something is understood. In other words it is my responsibility to see that knowledge is transferred instead of just expecting the students to "get it" once I've made a decent presentation. Another way of explaining it is that everyone needs to do the quality of work to earn an "A". Getting a B or C or worse is not acceptable and I need to do whatever so they not only leave class with a professional quality frame but also have the background to do that in the future. Of course not everyone has the inherited skills to make wonderful frames so I have to take up some of the slack.
