C-Record hub questions
06-24-20, 10:54 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
C-Record hub questions
I'm overhauling a front C-Record hub. When cones are adjusted properly and dustcaps are off, they spin very smoothly with no resistance, but when I add the dustcaps there is a noticeable addition of resistance. It's strange - it's not that they feel rough like a dirty bearing, they just seem to give more resistance than I'd expect. I've done this in the past and don't remember this happening... A couple of questions:
1) Is this normal?
2) Should the hub dustcaps rotate with the hubshell, or remain "stuck" to the axle? I'm guessing the former...
Any tips appreciated!
1) Is this normal?
2) Should the hub dustcaps rotate with the hubshell, or remain "stuck" to the axle? I'm guessing the former...
Any tips appreciated!
06-24-20, 11:37 PM
#2
señor miembro
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 6,593
Bikes: '70s - '80s Campagnolo
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3854 Post(s)
Liked 6,449 Times
in
3,189 Posts
Never had C-Record hubs, but have had very similar dust cap issues when the cap is not perfectly round around the cone or the axle is a tiny bit bent.
06-25-20, 01:29 PM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Baltimore MD
Posts: 3,330
Bikes: '72 Motobecane Grand Record, '72 Gitane tandem, '72 Raleigh Super Course, '73 Raleigh Gran Sport, '73 Colnago Super, '76 Fiorelli Coppi, '78 Raleigh SBDU Team Pro, '78 Trek 930, '81 Holdsworth Special 650B, '86 Masi GC, ’94 Bridgestone RB-T
Mentioned: 67 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 786 Post(s)
Liked 516 Times
in
280 Posts
Dustcaps should stay with the hub. I've had some C-Record ones that were worn, and spun with the axle. Are the cones original in yours?
__________________
The man who dies with the most toys…is dead. - Rootboy
The man who dies with the most toys…is dead. - Rootboy
06-25-20, 03:40 PM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,223
Mentioned: 654 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4722 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3,036 Times
in
1,874 Posts
Sometimes you can distort dust caps when prying with off and that can cause this symptom, as can a bent axle. C-Record hubs had a dedicated dust cap removal tool.
Likes For T-Mar:
Likes For P!N20:
06-25-20, 07:38 PM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,223
Mentioned: 654 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4722 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3,036 Times
in
1,874 Posts
Likes For P!N20:
06-25-20, 08:17 PM
#8
Senior Member
Which is why I still have one, even though I have no more C-Record hubs.
__________________
My bikes: '81 Trek 957, '83 Trek 720, '85 Trek 500, '85 Trek 770,'81 Merckx, '85 Centurion Cinelli, '85 Raleigh Portage, '92 RB-2, '09 Bianchi
My bikes: '81 Trek 957, '83 Trek 720, '85 Trek 500, '85 Trek 770,
Likes For nesteel:
06-25-20, 08:24 PM
#9
Senior Member
Has anyone ever made a Youtube video of overhauling a vintage Campy hub?
I have searched in the past and found lots of videos on the new stuff but nothing on the vintage stuff.
Gotta be an audience for this, right?
I have searched in the past and found lots of videos on the new stuff but nothing on the vintage stuff.
Gotta be an audience for this, right?
Likes For jet sanchEz:
06-25-20, 08:59 PM
#10
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Thanks for the input, everyone. I won't be able to dig into these again until the weekend, but this has been helpful. I've gathered that there should be no increase in friction with the dust caps attached.
I believe the cones are stock.
The dust caps do stay with the hubshell as they should.
I'll check the axle too.
I believe the cones are stock.
The dust caps do stay with the hubshell as they should.
I'll check the axle too.
06-25-20, 10:14 PM
#11
Insane Bicycle Mechanic
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: other Vancouver
Posts: 9,825
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 797 Post(s)
Liked 694 Times
in
371 Posts
Park Tool has good step-by-step instructions: https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair...and-adjustment
__________________
Jeff Wills
Comcast nuked my web page. It will return soon..
Jeff Wills
Comcast nuked my web page. It will return soon..
06-27-20, 08:41 PM
#12
Used to be Conspiratemus
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hamilton ON Canada
Posts: 1,512
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 297 Post(s)
Liked 245 Times
in
163 Posts
I think yes, in the sense that, like people, materials normally get more decrepit, not less, as they age.
I've got one of these bought new way back when, The seals from the get-go always dragged on the cones a bit but my recollection is that the rub was so slight it didn't slow the wheel down much, even if it felt "sticky" in the fingers. With the wheel clamped in the fork it would drift to a stop almost as expected, except that the final few degrees were more abrupt than with the unsealed Nuovo Record hubs we loved so much (and still do.) As it happened the hub was mounted on my rando bike which stopped getting much use once my wife and I got seriously into tandeming -- to this day most of our long rides are à deux. So I was a bit surprised, on getting the old Mariposa ready for a century last summer, at how sticky the front hub seemed. It doesn't bind exactly, there just seems to be more drag than I remembered when it was new. As expected there is more starting friction than there is sliding friction. With the seals off, it spins perfectly, like yours does. The cones are adjusted so that the very slight play is taken up when the QR is clamped on spacers to mimic the dropouts. I doubt if the drag is enough to slow me down any more than age already has but I agree it just doesn't seem right.
Your post reminds me that I had planned to pop the seals off and try to increase the bore with emery cloth until the seal material no longer wipes the cones. Could it be that the sealing surface, which feels like some sort of elastomer, has expanded or roughened with age and encroaches more on the cones now? I don't think anything is bent. As you know, the dust cap is a rigid chunk of material, not the thin discs of metal used on other hubs which, yes, can easily be deformed during removal. I suppose if I rode the bike for a few thousand km the cones would wear their way into the sealing material and the problem would solve itself.
The other quirk with these hubs is that you can't get at the cones to adjust them with the seals in place. Even the locknuts are partially buried in the seal. (I always thought of C-Record as "more show than go" and this was one reason.) I cheat by dripping oil into them through the oil hole and try to avoid removing the seals for any reason, since I don't have the removal tool. So far I've had good luck prying them off gently with a broad blunt-edged tool that is nearly as thick as the gap between seal and hub -- not a screwdriver which will chip the seal. Reinstall by placing a socket big enough to clear the locknut over the axle end and tap gently and squarely home with the other end of the axle supported on a hard surface like a vice jaw. I don't know how many times you can do this before something breaks, so oil, not grease, is what this hub gets. (It was only the unusual resistance encountered during inspection that caused me to suspect the worst and remove the seals for a closer look.)
I've got one of these bought new way back when, The seals from the get-go always dragged on the cones a bit but my recollection is that the rub was so slight it didn't slow the wheel down much, even if it felt "sticky" in the fingers. With the wheel clamped in the fork it would drift to a stop almost as expected, except that the final few degrees were more abrupt than with the unsealed Nuovo Record hubs we loved so much (and still do.) As it happened the hub was mounted on my rando bike which stopped getting much use once my wife and I got seriously into tandeming -- to this day most of our long rides are à deux. So I was a bit surprised, on getting the old Mariposa ready for a century last summer, at how sticky the front hub seemed. It doesn't bind exactly, there just seems to be more drag than I remembered when it was new. As expected there is more starting friction than there is sliding friction. With the seals off, it spins perfectly, like yours does. The cones are adjusted so that the very slight play is taken up when the QR is clamped on spacers to mimic the dropouts. I doubt if the drag is enough to slow me down any more than age already has but I agree it just doesn't seem right.
Your post reminds me that I had planned to pop the seals off and try to increase the bore with emery cloth until the seal material no longer wipes the cones. Could it be that the sealing surface, which feels like some sort of elastomer, has expanded or roughened with age and encroaches more on the cones now? I don't think anything is bent. As you know, the dust cap is a rigid chunk of material, not the thin discs of metal used on other hubs which, yes, can easily be deformed during removal. I suppose if I rode the bike for a few thousand km the cones would wear their way into the sealing material and the problem would solve itself.
The other quirk with these hubs is that you can't get at the cones to adjust them with the seals in place. Even the locknuts are partially buried in the seal. (I always thought of C-Record as "more show than go" and this was one reason.) I cheat by dripping oil into them through the oil hole and try to avoid removing the seals for any reason, since I don't have the removal tool. So far I've had good luck prying them off gently with a broad blunt-edged tool that is nearly as thick as the gap between seal and hub -- not a screwdriver which will chip the seal. Reinstall by placing a socket big enough to clear the locknut over the axle end and tap gently and squarely home with the other end of the axle supported on a hard surface like a vice jaw. I don't know how many times you can do this before something breaks, so oil, not grease, is what this hub gets. (It was only the unusual resistance encountered during inspection that caused me to suspect the worst and remove the seals for a closer look.)
06-27-20, 08:45 PM
#13
Used to be Conspiratemus
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hamilton ON Canada
Posts: 1,512
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 297 Post(s)
Liked 245 Times
in
163 Posts
Tom Cuthbertson's Anybody's Bike Book did it for me, back when a "10-speed" meant 5 sprockets on a freewheel. Developing "thread sense" was, and is, the key skill for an amateur wrench.
06-27-20, 09:27 PM
#14
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I think yes, in the sense that, like people, materials normally get more decrepit, not less, as they age.
I've got one of these bought new way back when, The seals from the get-go always dragged on the cones a bit but my recollection is that the rub was so slight it didn't slow the wheel down much, even if it felt "sticky" in the fingers. With the wheel clamped in the fork it would drift to a stop almost as expected, except that the final few degrees were more abrupt than with the unsealed Nuovo Record hubs we loved so much (and still do.) As it happened the hub was mounted on my rando bike which stopped getting much use once my wife and I got seriously into tandeming -- to this day most of our long rides are à deux. So I was a bit surprised, on getting the old Mariposa ready for a century last summer, at how sticky the front hub seemed. It doesn't bind exactly, there just seems to be more drag than I remembered when it was new. As expected there is more starting friction than there is sliding friction. With the seals off, it spins perfectly, like yours does. The cones are adjusted so that the very slight play is taken up when the QR is clamped on spacers to mimic the dropouts. I doubt if the drag is enough to slow me down any more than age already has but I agree it just doesn't seem right.
Your post reminds me that I had planned to pop the seals off and try to increase the bore with emery cloth until the seal material no longer wipes the cones. Could it be that the sealing surface, which feels like some sort of elastomer, has expanded or roughened with age and encroaches more on the cones now? I don't think anything is bent. As you know, the dust cap is a rigid chunk of material, not the thin discs of metal used on other hubs which, yes, can easily be deformed during removal. I suppose if I rode the bike for a few thousand km the cones would wear their way into the sealing material and the problem would solve itself.
I've got one of these bought new way back when, The seals from the get-go always dragged on the cones a bit but my recollection is that the rub was so slight it didn't slow the wheel down much, even if it felt "sticky" in the fingers. With the wheel clamped in the fork it would drift to a stop almost as expected, except that the final few degrees were more abrupt than with the unsealed Nuovo Record hubs we loved so much (and still do.) As it happened the hub was mounted on my rando bike which stopped getting much use once my wife and I got seriously into tandeming -- to this day most of our long rides are à deux. So I was a bit surprised, on getting the old Mariposa ready for a century last summer, at how sticky the front hub seemed. It doesn't bind exactly, there just seems to be more drag than I remembered when it was new. As expected there is more starting friction than there is sliding friction. With the seals off, it spins perfectly, like yours does. The cones are adjusted so that the very slight play is taken up when the QR is clamped on spacers to mimic the dropouts. I doubt if the drag is enough to slow me down any more than age already has but I agree it just doesn't seem right.
Your post reminds me that I had planned to pop the seals off and try to increase the bore with emery cloth until the seal material no longer wipes the cones. Could it be that the sealing surface, which feels like some sort of elastomer, has expanded or roughened with age and encroaches more on the cones now? I don't think anything is bent. As you know, the dust cap is a rigid chunk of material, not the thin discs of metal used on other hubs which, yes, can easily be deformed during removal. I suppose if I rode the bike for a few thousand km the cones would wear their way into the sealing material and the problem would solve itself.
