therealjoeblow

Because everyone has opinions, and that's fine. That's what makes the world a great place. It's just that a lot of people form their opinions based on myth and not on fact, and then try to ram that down everyone's throat as if it is fact.

Frustrating I know...

As you noticed, the videos demonstrate the facts.

Cheers
TRJB

hokiefyd 

TRJB gave a great presentation on threaded headsets (which uses a quill stem) vs. threadless headsets. The easy way to spot them is to look for a large nut at the top. Nuts use threads, so it must be a threaded headset, and it'll have a quill stem sticking out the top. If there's no large nut, it's necessarily a threadless headset.

hokiefyd 

Well, it's personal preference. Think about a lowered high performance Camaro compared with a Cadillac. The Cadillac will certainly ride smoother, but it will also be slower to respond and some road feel is removed in the process of offering that isolation. The Camaro will be much more nimble and will be faster to respond to steering input. Some of that is due to the lower profile tires, and some of that is due to the stiffer suspension.

The same is true of bicycles. My daughter has a Raleigh Alysa -- the women's version of the Cadent. It's actually close in concept to your Sirrus. It has a rigid fork, rides low to the road, and is very nimble. It will turn on a dime and is very agile. It's analogous to the Camaro. My Verve, in comparison, is heavier, is taller, is more upright, and has a suspension fork. It does not have the agility of the Raleigh. It's more like the Cadillac.

I will not argue that a suspension fork is without compromise. You very much lose something in choosing a suspension fork. But you gain something as well. Which you prefer is very much up to what YOU want in your bike. You can't get it all in one bike. Every bike out there represents a set of compromises; the right one for you is the one that strikes that balance the best.

This is my perspective on the "weight argument" also. I will always agree that a suspension fork removes some road feel and agility and all that. But I will also argue against the actual difference in weight making an impact in my ride. I'm 235 pounds, and my bike is probably 30 loaded. That's a total of 265 pounds rolling. If a rigid fork would save me 2.65 pounds, that's a total of 1% of my rolling weight. C'mon. My choice in shoes or clothes that day will make as much difference. Weight is not relevant to this bike for me, anyway. I'm not riding for time, I'm not riding for efficiency, and I'm not riding for conditioning. I'm riding for recreation and exercise. I guess I could even argue that a little extra weight isn't a bad thing -- I've got to be burning a few extra calories to push that huge, heavy fork down the road, right?

The same argument is often made regarding frame material. Some like steel, some like aluminum, some like carbon, and some will argue about it until the day is old. In reality, each material offers a specific set of advantages and disadvantages and will be better suited for some types of use than others. Just like forks. Will I choose to fit a suspension fork to a time trial bike or something that I would use in timed competition on the road? Probably not. Will I choose to fit a suspension fork to my hybrid, that I use on family or solo bike rides for recreation on mixed terrain where I prefer to feel less of the surface through the handlebar? Yes; I have, and I would do it again.

cycling705

Thank you so much for your overview. That was extremely helpful, and makes complete sense. I appreciate all of your help and insights throughout this thread.

With regard to the Satori stem you mentioned, do you recommend it, or is there another brand that you prefer? I think that's exactly what I need.

Thanks again.

cycling705

Excellent perspectives. I agree with your points. Thanks for your help throughout the thread.

ColonelSanders

With the clever design the Satori has, you simply won't find many other options with that design.


One thing to keep in mind is that your brake and shifting cables may restrict just how high you can go, so be mindful of how much slack there currently is in your various cables.

therealjoeblow

^^+1 on @ColonelSanders advice. You need to be careful about going too high, or else you'll be replacing cables and worse yet, hydraulic lines if you have hydraulic disc brakes.

I have no preference and make no recommendation for brand of these type components. IME, if they are alloy with stainless fasteners and well made, they generally perform well.

Cheers
TRJB

MRT2

Respectfully, I don't think your videos settle anything.

While I don't want to debate you on this point (the curious can find our discussion on this issue on another thread), I do take umbrage that you do exactly as others do. You are not a neutral voice of reason on this point. You have a clear preference for suspension forks for general use. Others, perhaps a majority on this board take the opposite view.

Our opinions are not formed because of myth, but because of experience. In 20 years of riding bikes I owned personally, test rode, and rented, I have formed impressions of the ride of these bikes. As have you, I presume.

I have given my advice, you have given yours. I don't accuse you of making recommendations based on myth or groupthink, or whatever. You shouldn't do that, either.

MRT2

I think a better analogy to OP is something like a family sedan, say, a Honda Accord, which is sort of like his Sirrus. A perfectly serviceable bike suitable for family use. OP is convincing himself he needs a minivan for family use. All I am saying is, you can take your kids to school in a sedan, or you can take your kids to school in a van.

cycling705

I'm not drawing sides here at all, but aren't TRJB's comments / videos just suggesting that it settles the argument regarding the "pogo-stick" effect? Those videos do make a strong case for that. I didn't sense that he was saying that everyone has to agree that suspension forks are the way to go for hybrids.

I'm sure there are those who feel very differently (obviously). At the end of the day though, isn't this whole issue just a matter of personal preference?

That said, would you mind sharing the thread title or link to your reference above? I'd like to learn more about the views of those who are not in favor of suspension forks on hybrid bikes (and their reasons).

Thanks as always.

prj71

Those videos show nothing more than a cheap suspension fork going up and down. Here is some alternate discussion about it and why you really don't need it for your use.

https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/q...-cheaper-bikes

https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/q...-fork-worth-it

Hybrid Bikes. Front supension or Carbon Fork? - BikeRadar Forum

If the makers of hybrid bikes actually put a "good" suspension fork on the bikes it might be worth considering. But they don't

cycling705

Thanks for the links. I will definitely check them out. Are there any threads on Bike Forums that discuss this topic?

MRT2

I don't recall, but if you search my profile and that of TRJB, you should find the common thread. And yes, it is a matter of personal preference, but I suspect there is a bit of marketing going on at the manufacturer level as well. Or was. I wonder though if the era of the cheap suspension fork comfort bike might just be waning, as I see that the Trek Verve series has moved away from them, and Specialized has introduced the Roll, which relies on wide plush tires to soak up bumps rather than a suspension. You know it is only a matter of time before Giant follows suit. IMO, it is a sensible move.

hokiefyd 

I certainly agree that bikes are, usually, far more flexible and adaptable than we make them out to be. It's generally cheap and easy to have and maintain multiple bikes, so I think it's a natural tendency to go towards each extreme and own multiple bikes instead of just one...at least it is for me. I have a tall and super soft Verve. It's definitely to one extreme. I'm also on the lookout for something like an older rigid hybrid that's a bit lower to the ground (like a '90s Trek 750 or similar) because I still do enjoy riding my daughter's Raleigh Alysa (women's Cadent) sometimes. There are times when I might like to have a lower and faster and lighter hybrid of my own.

There are days when I feel like a boulevard ride and there are days when I feel like I want to be connected to the pavement with glue. I personally prefer separating those duties into multiple bikes, rather than try to make one bike sort of do it all. I readily admit that this is so only because bikes are relatively cheap and small -- easy to buy and easy to store. I'd love to do the same with my vehicles, but I have neither the money nor the space to own a Suburban, a Wrangler, a Porsche Cayman, and a Lexus LS450.

MRT2

Multiple tools for the same job? I get it. I have been there myself, and hope to warn others about this phenomenon. I have gone through many different bikes, and I suppose it is all good. I bought a vintage Schwinn just because I had forgotten what it was like to ride with old school friction shifters. I bought a Bianchi Milano because I thought it would be a nice comfortable bike for low speed cruises with the family. (it wasn't) I bought a vintage Trek 930 for the same reason. (very comfortable bike, but still prefer my Salsa for anything that isn't single track).

Since OP has a young child, I would suggest he budget for his kid's next bike, as they tend to outgrow bikes every couple of years. Or get some cool new accessories. Or put the money in a new bike fund to be spent at some future date for something really cool. (and every year, some cool new bike will catch your eye.)

hokiefyd 

If I had the space or the desire for only one bike, it probably wouldn't be a Trek Verve. It'd probably also not be anything I could actually buy new. I'd probably have some hybrid (har!) of a mountain bike/touring bike with 622mm wheels that could fit up to 2" wide tires with geometry for a suspension fork, and I'd probably have some uber expensive fork that's as light as a rigid fork and also offers a lockout.

Heck, forget something I can't buy new. Maybe it doesn't exist at all!

Until then...

We have four family members and 6 bikes. The '15 Trek and '93 Motiv are mine (though I still have the Motiv only for sentimental reasons). The '15 Raleigh is our 11 year old's, and it'll be a good size for her for a while. But, she likes riding dirt also. We found the '97 Trek 850 FREE on CL a month or so back. Just needed a few tubes/tires and a cleanup. When we go for a ride, she asks where we're going, and she chooses which of her two bikes accordingly. All paved, she takes the Raleigh. Gravel trails/two track, she takes the Trek. My Verve is fit enough to do any of it, especially with the taller 42-622 tires I have on it, but it still doesn't handle a fast curvy paved path like her Raleigh does.

Choices...

cycling705

Completely fair and reasonable points!

I don't have a preference either way on this issue. I'm just trying to educate myself, and then do some test riding (or change my Sirrus) based on that knowledge. I appreciate your insights, as well as those from people on the other side of the fence.

Thanks for the general direction to finding that thread.

cycling705

That was great. The question becomes, which of the four cars would you prefer most? For me, it's probably the Wrangler.

cycling705

True, very true. It's been a regular phenomenon for ~40 years!

Time to grab some popcorn and go check out these threads and discussions on suspension forks. Should be fun.

cycling705

Great points. Thank you both.

Is there a general rule of thumb on how loose the cables should be when adding a spacer or adjustable stem (or both)? I realize there needs to be enough room to turn the handlebars L or R, but is it that simple, or are there technical measurements to consider?

ColonelSanders

Good question.


When I added my latest stem, it raised the height and arguably pushed the handlebars away from me a bit more and it was a somewhat tight fit getting the brake and gear levers back onto the handlebar, but as I could turn left and right without being impeded in any way, I just went with it and have had no problems in the 4+ months since I did it.


EDIT: Behold 130mm of 40 degree goodness.

ColonelSanders

These debates about suspension fork or rigid fork, are missing quite a few points, which I will list below.


1. If someone is looking at a Roam/Crosstrail/DS with a suspension fork, it also suggests that they are after a bike that is more rugged than many of the non-suspension equipped bikes.


2. A potential Roam/Crosstrail/DS buyer probably also wants larger tyres than would be found on a rigid fork bike like a Sirrus/Escape/FX.


3. Due to the above factors, even if you find a bike that has comparable qualities to a Roam/Crosstrail/DS, they may come in a wheel size you don't want(i.e. 650B), or a look you don't like or are more expensive and outside the budget(i.e. Giant Toughroad).


So when I see people saying, don't get a suspension shod bike, are they really taking into account what alternatives actually exist?


I mean it is not like Giant, Specialized and Trek sell their respective Roam, Crosstrail and DS models with a rigid fork.


Having said all that, man oh man, how I love my Toughroad SLR 2, it is more than I had hoped for.

hokiefyd 

That's about it. You need to be able to turn your handlebar lock-to-lock and the radius of the bend (from your shifter/brake handle) down to the frame should be smooth. Aside from that, there really are no hard-and-fast rules.

andrei_r

That is almost inappropriate content, Colonel.

prj71

Probably one of the best hybrids around. Giant did it right with carbon fork and 2" wide tires.