Robert A

I'm looking into having custom alloy wheels built and am curious about Campy hubs. For the most part, I only hear about Industry Nine, DT Swiss and Chris King. Is there any reason the Campagnolo Record hubs aren't discussed?

What I like about Campy hubs is the sound of the freewheel on YT vids -- a very distinct click. What I don't know is how good, or how light, they are compared to the others, and whether there are any tradeoffs in using them. I have a Shimano groupset.

jamesdak 

They're awesome, nuff said!

jideta

AFAIK, only available in 32 hole drilling.

Robert A

Yes, that was one consideration. The other is whether the make a version that's compatible with a Shimano cassette.

gfk_velo

I have to declare an interest here - I am Campag's head tech in the UK ... I'm also a custom wheelbuilder with something like 2800 pairs and 900 individual wheels in my "wheel book" - now more ofa spreadsheet, TBH.
I keep a note of everything I build and have done for 35 years. Yes, I know, I should get out more :-D

I think of the open bearing hubs available, Campag Record and Shimano Dura Ace are the pinnacle.

Most of the other hubs that one sees now use "sealed" or "cartridge", sometimes slightly disparagingly called "industrial" bearings - which by definition tend to have higher rolling resistance (although it can be argued that the higher rolling resistance of a cartridge bearing is offset by ease of maintenance / replacement) ... there are ways around that by removing seals etc but that has an effect on the very longevity that the hub makers are trying to produce.

Some designs also seem to use a very large number of bearings (I counted 6 in a rear hub recently), each one of which is extra rolling resistance.

In the two open hubs noted above, there are some important characteristics not frequently discussed / thought about.

Campagnolo bearing surfaces are all replaceable - they come as steel balls on hardened and ground steel races / cones which run in a grease bath, you can swap the balls out for the Campagnolo USB Silicon Nitride Ceramic balls (this makes them into what Campagnolo term "USB" specification, or the surfaces can all be changed for Cronitect stainless and with a ceramic ball, this produces the "CULT" bearing, which can run on an oil film for minimum rolling resistance.

The DA hubs can also have third-party ceramic balls fitted but as far as I am aware, there's no option for stainless bearing surfaces so for most users with normal maintenance habits, running them on an oil film is not practical.

The Shimano hubs run on just two bearings in the rear hub (aruably there are a third and fourth inside the freehub) but the crucial thing here is that the axle is supported as close to the dropouts as can be arranged - so giving good axle rigidity. Campagnolo use an alternative strategy, using an oversize alloy axle to give rigidity and placing the NDS bearing as far "left" as is practical given the position of the NDS flange and tucking the DS bearing in very tight under the cassette body. Two single-seal bearings are used for the cassette body to minimise rolling resistance there.

The Campagnolo hub design essentially like a threadless headset turned on it's side, and can be adjusted in the bike, with the QR done up, in order to maximise bearing life and minimise rolling resistance - a design now copied in some of Shimano's high end wheel sets, although not their regular hubs, as far as I can recall.

Campag currently only market 32H black - despite the best efforts of myself, as well as some of the other more traditionalist mechanics working for Campagnolo, to get them to change that - Shimano DA do silver, 28, 32 and 36.

We (in our guise as a custom builder, which we do when we are not *strictly* wearing our Campag hat) will strip the Campag black hubs of their anodising and polish, as will a couple of other businesses we know.

A lot of the movement towards some of the DT Swiss, Hope, Chris King etc hubs is about convenience of bearing maintenance as well as smart marketing. Depending on what sort of wheels you are building, what the rim choice is and how you want to lace the wheels, though, all hubs were definitely not created equal, with matters like flange size, flange thickness, spoke hole size, consistency and counterbore and the relative placement of the hub flanges along the hub barrel all having an influence over the strength, ride quality, durability and ease of build for the builder.

It pays to speak to and give your trust to a very experienced wheelbuilder who records his or her work, what they built and when, for whom and for what purpose and with what materials - and crucially how successful that build was. If they do that and are critical of their own work, regardless of what hub they build on, with what rim or spokes, they should do a good job for you. The skill of the wheelbuilder is at least as important as the basic materials.

Robert A

Thanks, GFK. Wonderful post! Would love to ask a few follow up questions.

1 - Will Campy Record work with Shimano cassettes?
2 - If Campy hubs are 32 holes, does the higher spoke count cause a negative impact on wheel weight, aerodynamics and responsiveness? I'm 140 pounds and was looking at custom wheels with far fewer spokes.

In comparison to Record hubs with custom-built alloy wheels with HED, Easton or Boyd rims, what are your thoughts about the Shamal Ultra wheelset? I've read good things about Shamal, but the specs indicate that the internal width at 17c is narrower than the others. Any insight you can provide would be appreciated.

Lastly, can you recommend any wheel builders in So Cal (Los Angeles)?

Thank you,
Robert

topflightpro

OP, at you weight, you could easily go 20h front and 24h rear. 32 would be overkill, unless your goal is to build an incredibly solid and overbuilt wheelset. And yes, they will be unnecessarily heavy and will not be terribly aerodynamic.

Robert A

Exactly my concern. I need wheels built to my weight and that likely means light.

garciawork

​​
I can't speak directly to the Shamal's, but I knew a guy with them and they were great. I had two set's of Fulcrum Racing 3 2 way fit's (Eurus, basically, AFAIK), and after years of ownership, they were still as truw as the day I got them. Would totally buy again.

jideta

Excuse my ignorance; I haven't shopped Campag wheels in a while. Despite that...
Campag tends to use proprietary stuff.
They also tend to do things a bit differently. Look at the lacing. Proprietary spokes.
Shamal Ultra? Paying more for ceramic bearings.
BTW, if you are running Shimano, you probably have to look to Fulcrum.
For what the Shamals cost, I would rather go with a custom build, using regular parts easily serviced by me or the LBS.
Something goes south on your Campag wheels and you are probably in for a wait to get replacement parts.
Quality wise, I would guess they are about the same. I just wouldn't want to deal with replacing some propriety aluminum spokes (if I had to guess, at least 2 or 3 different lengths) or other Italian carbon/alloy goodness.
If you take care of them I would bet a long and happy relationship.
All my bicycles are Campag and I looked hard and long and Campag wheels.
In the end, White Industries, Sapim, and HED won out.
Don't listen to me.
You gotta ride them and look at them everyday.
Get what makes you happy.

Marcus_Ti

Because they're rim-brake only, 32-hole only, QR-only, Campag spline only (I think). As opposed to i9/DT/Onyx/Hope/King that today support everything and build up very good wheels while doing it. Real limiting factors when people want to build carbon-fiber rims (that don't need or come in 32h), never mind thru axle support, never mind disc brakes, never mind Shimano spline or SRAM xD.

IOW...Campagnolo is still making/selling hubs like people are only road racing and only riding alloy rims in 2005. They were good hubs, 10-15 years ago....arguably they still are good hubs--but with lots of limits on what standards they support making them undesirable in a field with lots of options that support everything for about the same cost while building just as nice a wheel.

Drew Eckhardt 

Campagnolo sells Shimano/SRAM splined freehubs with both Campy and Fulcrum branding.

Robert A

But is it 32 holes no matter what?

big john

Yes.

Drew Eckhardt 

Yes, unless you find a used set which were sold separately (28 holes) or in Campagnolo wheels which were available with 16 holes or fewer (I don't know if the 12 spoke Shamals were still an option after the move to the current oversized alloy axle hub design).

Drag differences from increased spoke count were within the measurement error range in Zipp's wind tunnel tests.

A 2.0mm/1.5mm spoke like the DT Revolution, DT Aerolite, Sapim Laser, or Sapim CX Ray weighs about 4.5g and alloy nipple 0.3g for 4.8g total. Building a set of 32 spoked wheels instead of 16 front and 24 rear using those will cost you 108 grams, which is 0.15% of total weight and 5 seconds per hour of climbing for a 154 pound bike + rider combination.

Use zinc anti-seize, get the spoke length right measuring actual ERD, and you'll be fine with alloy nipples.

Marcus_Ti

No one I know of selling Campagnolo Record hubs offers it has an option. Prowheelbuider, Colorado Cyclist etc. The Fulcrum Shimano FH body does not list Record compatibility. Fulcrum doesn't even list FH bodies on their site....what is more according to JensonUSA even that part is discontinued.

https://www.modernbike.com/fulcrum-c...ttes-12mm-axle
https://www.jensonusa.com/Fulcrum-Fr...or-ShimanoSram

AFAIK they only support Shimano on their OEM proprietary pre-built wheels. NOT their standalone Record hub.

RGMN

It is Campagnolo Part Number FH-BO015X1. Works with either Fulcrum or Campagnolo angular contact OS style hubs. Still available from Quality. Your LBS should be able to order it.

I use Record hubs on my everyday roadbike with HED Belgium+ rims. Not the lightest setup but damn near bulletproof. I put them together 5 years ago and haven't touched them since. Still as true as the day they were built.

My fast commuter (actually of my old road bikes with a rack and lights added) uses Chorus OS hubs. Love the classic shape and the polished finish. The hubs have more than 25,000 miles on them and still spin like new. Now on it's 4th set of rims (DT Swiss R460) these are great wheels that put up with the use/abuse of commuting in most any weather.

Robert A

How do you like those HED rims as far as performance and road feel are concerned?

jideta

Depending on your bicycle Belgium + may not be a good choice.
With 28mm I don't think they would fit on my road bike (28mm w/19mm wide rims barely fit). I got some HplusSon Archetypes coming in and at 23mm they might not fit either. May have to go back down to 26mm tires.
Hed Belgium + are really wide. They are on my gravel with 30mm tires.
Road bike I'd go C2s.
Maybe.

As far as performance and road feel, tires and tubes make more of a difference than rims.

RGMN

I really like them. The added tire volume really smooths the ride, yet the tires seem stiffer when carving around the turns. They are about what I expected from a premium rim.

The DT Swiss R460 really impresses me. They seem every bit as good as the Belgium C2s I had but are 2/3s the cost. I will say they took a little more work to build (they needed some de-burring) but once together they work just as well as the C2s.

Of the 3 I like the Belgium+ a little better than the Belgium C2 or R460 but I would be happy with any of them on my primary wheels.

Doge

Why do you need more than 16 spokes? Might put the C'Sink for the J-bend off. I don't know if they are OK for Radial, but radial 16 on 35mm-50mm rims would be nice.

Kimmo 

16 is a bit of a stretch on the rear, but you could go 2:1 24.

Doge

Great option. I worry about indexing, and I thought they were c'sunk, so triplet lacing (although Campy is big into it) may not be an option.
If like below - I'd do that.

I ride 24 rear, 20 front on a 360#-400# tandem.

I'd like to see a picture. The current look as if they would take that just fine.
24 rear, 16 front.

Doge

You want to go Italian and exotic look at Extralite. I caught so much greif putting my kid on these 4 years ago and most the other standard stuff has broken since then. On team bike and some of his.
https://www.extralite.com/Products/CyberRear%20SP.htm

sumgy

Shimano and Campag will work with each other (at least in the 11 speed format).
I run Campagnolo Record 11 speed groupset on my Moots with wheels that have a Shimano 11 speed freehub and cassette.
Maybe I am confused, but why would you want to run a Campagnolo wheelset if you are using a Shimano groupset (apart from the sound)?
If it was me, I would want to run a Shimano wheelset.
Shimano Dura-Ace hubs make a nice noise. Their Ultegra ones are too quiet for me.