smontanaro 

I took my Motobecane Grand Jubilé for my first substantial ride (about 40 miles). The Huret long cage Jubilee rear derailleur seemed more vague than any I've ever used (worse than my recollection of a NR with the Soma/Bob Freeman long cage). This started me thinking that since I'd already swapped out the front Huret Jubilee (cracked clamp) with a SunTour Vx that perhaps a VGT that I have in my parts drawer would work. However, the drive-side dropout has the Simplex-style four o'clock stop instead of the Campagnolo-style seven o'clock stop. Will the SunTour derailleur work properly with that difference?

bikemig 

I don't know if I've ever seen a Motobecane with a simplex drop out. The suntour will certainly work with a claw and will work on a simplex style drop out if you mod it.

Here is a useful guide:

Derailleur Hangers Demystified - Red Clover Components

Lovely bike but that looks like a campy drop out . . . .

smontanaro 

Actually, after reading that page (thanks), I believe I misspoke when I wrote "Simplex." I should have written "Huret." The stop seems pretty clearly to me to be on the four o'clock side of six o'clock.

If it comes to that, I won't adopt any of Jon's "brutalist" approaches. I'll probably just move the bike along and let the next steward make the hack-or-suffer decision.

bikemig 

Well running a RD on a claw is not brutalist. There are ways to mod a huret dropout so that you can run a campy style RD. I don't consider this "brutalist" since there is not much supply of huret derailleurs.

Both @gugie and @verktyg have solutions for this drop out

due ruote 

On my Stella, a PO drilled and tapped the edge of the dropout so that a small cap head Allen bolt can serve as the RD stop.

TenGrainBread 

See this post by @Metacortex:

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...l#post14191488

You need a tabbed washer that provides the stop in the Campy position for non-Huret derailleurs, as Schwinn did on their nicer fillet-brazed models of the 70s. The post above is about fitting a VGT derailleur to a Huret hanger, just like you need.

bikemig 

How do you make a tabbed washer out of a flat M10 washer as suggested by that post?

Moe Zhoost

I've tried to do that starting out with a larger washer and filing/bending/punching. Results weren't great. I remade it out of 1/4" aluminum by filing and drilling away the bits I didn't need. Still not great, but functional.

bikemig 

Aluminum would be a heck of a lot easier to manipulate than the M10 steel washer suggested in the original post.

I've seen a few posts suggesting that a crane RD or first gen rally might work as they have their own stops but some posters have had real problem trying this as a solution.

TenGrainBread 

I think Metacortex was referring to this blog post: https://16incheswestofpeoria.wordpre...sports-tourer/

You can see in the comments at the bottom he wrote out his process:

"1) First, buy several washers. You’ll ruin one or two on the way.
2) You need a vise (I was going to write vice, but everyone has on already), a hacksaw and a file.
3) I laid the washer on the dropout and marked it where it needed to be cut and bent.
4) Cut and bend the washer.
5) Repeat as necessary with other washers until you get the fit just right.
6) Saw and file away the excess washer as you’re inclined."

If it were me I'd simply look for a Schwinn-approved Suntour or Shimano derailleur that came OEM with the washer and transplant it to my desired derailleur. Might take a bit of looking but they are out there.

bikemig 

Perhaps @smontanaro can change the title of this thread to Suntour derailleur on a Huret dropout?

This is becoming a very useful thread for anyone dealing with an old Huret dropout!

TenGrainBread 

Let me add to the discussion of the homemade washer above - from a fabrication perspective it would seem easier to me to start with a flat strip of metal rather than a washer. This strip will be easier to bend in the vice than a small washer. It will then take more cutting and you will have to drill the mounting hole but it is a good trade-off for making the bending part easier.

smontanaro 

Yes, was thinking exactly the same thing. Not sure I can change the title, but if not, I'll ping a mod.

dddd

Getting back to the OP's actual problem, I also have noticed that the long-cage Allvit derailers gave huge chain-gap dimension as mounted and thus shifted terribly when using flexible (bushingless) modern chain.

On the bikes I tried these derailers with, the mounting claw was different from the standard Allvit mounting claw, positioning the derailer body more vertically.
So I filed away at the Huret-style stop on the claw, allowing the derailer body to swing forward. Shifting improved, though I could no longer use quite as large of a big cog.

So in this case, maybe there is some modification to the derailer's mounting hardware (or the hanger itself) that might allow the derailer body to swing forward a bit?

And I should mention that since all of the Allvits had a concentric "A" pivot and upper pulley, only the shape of the outer cage plate and the mounting hardware could be to blame for the poorer shifting of the longer-cage Allvit.

gugie 

If you were nearby, I’d suggest doing a permanent “fix”.



brass bar stock silver brazed in place



cut and filed

JohnDThompson 

I did a similar modification for @HenryIII several years ago, but instead of silver-brazing brass bar stock, I just built up a blob of brass and filed it into a stop:

gugie 

Once I use up my supply if brass bar stock I’ll try your method!

due ruote 

For posterity, here’s a pic of the drill and tap method mentioned earlier. I don’t really see a problem with it, but maybe I lack imagination.

TenGrainBread 

That's clever @due ruote

JohnDThompson 

I suspect it'll be fine.

And it has the benefit of being fully and easily reversible.

due ruote 

Certainly no problem if I keep the bike in fixed gear mode.

smontanaro 

I'm coming back to this (preparation for and participation in Centenario Coppi intervened). This topic reared its head again this morning as I was out riding the Grand Jubilé. This bike isn't a keeper, so I'm disinclined to make any permanent changes (anything involving brazing or cutting the frame). The tabbed washer idea looks like the most promising option. The existing long cage Jubilee derailleur is always going to be a lackadaisical shifter. I'd feel better turning over the bike with a SunTour derailleur and sell the Jubilee to someone who needs/wants it.

jonwvara 

In my stupid moments, I have thought of making a production version of a Huret-to-Campagnolo adaptor patterned after the commercially-made ones that were available in days of yore. Now there's a product that I could really not sell many of. Fortunately, even I have enough sense not to go down that road.

tombc

I've managed to mount a newer 105 9 speed derailleur to my Schwinn by reversing the B tension screw, works great

Road Fan

Skip, isn't there a different Huret rear derailleur that will handle the gearing and ... be next best? A Duopar comes to mind - In my hands at least they have not not been particularly fragile.

It's not truly a dichotomy between a Jubilee and an Allvit! And there is also the more modern Sachs product line.