non-fixie 

"Oh no! It's ... Vittorio!"



Maybe we best leave that to Walt Disney ...

juvela

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As regards Harry's gearing, chainwheels for this chainset were offered down to 32T. Just in case you envision and expedition to the Karakoram.

SUGINO MAXY 36t 3 Pin ALLOY Chain Wheel BX50 | eBay

VINTAGE SUGINO MAXY BICYCLE 52/40 TOOTH 171 MM FORGED ALLOY JIS CRANKSET 112 BCD | eBay

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LucasHartong

Amazing to read this thread! Guess what came to the workshop here? Nearly exactly the same kind of Hartman-frame! At present I am trying to rebuild it, as the frame is in very good condition. It has a Zeus headset and Campagnolo dropouts. I found a donor bike with approx the period-correct parts and hope to start rebuilding next week. Keep you posted!

LucasHartong

The frame number 1028 might indicate it was made in february 1978 or 1968. I tend to an early '68 date, as the paint looks very old indeed ('craquelé') and Harry Hartman built his frames at 's Gravendeel (NL) between approx 1967 and 1977, as far as I could trace. More info welcome!

non-fixie 

Nice find! And it does look familiar.

Looking a little closer, there are differences that suggest yours is a little older, especially the eyelets on the drop-outs and fork ends, the shape of the fork blades. Given the choice between '68 and '78, I'd say '68.

LucasHartong

I concur.

LucasHartong

First ride today. She did quite well.

63rickert

These are good frames. The drilling in the lower head lug is an Alain Michel trademark. Obviously much easier to copy than a Carré willow leaf but there are so many marks of fine construction... The stay cap could be Michel as well. The Nervex lug bike is by a different hand and also very good. My guess is Hartman knew what he was doing when he commissioned builds.

63rickert

Like so

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/ALAIN-MICHEL...IAAOSweltbD90p

That would be some years later and with a period paint atrocity. Not definitive but you can see why A Michel would be a strong possibility. Built for lots of pros, including Greg Lemond.

non-fixie 

Thank you for this observation. Interesting! There is another thread on Harry Hartman bikes, in which one owner states Hartman built his own frames between 1970 and 1980: ID on (rare?) Dutch Racefiets

non-fixie 

I do know that not all Hartman-branded frames were built by Harry. This is currently up for sale. A Locomotief, from way before Harry started his shop. A very, very nice frame from Bertus Slesker's shop:



I'd love one of these in my size.

non-fixie 

There is some evidence that he did build frames. This is a local newspaper clipping from BITD, with what I think is Harry showing a ... erm .... bicycle-like contraption he supposedly built:

63rickert

A quick google on Cycles Alain Michel brings up a Norris Lockley gallery, a 2014 thread on these forums, and enough images to confirm my initial hunch. OP frame is by AM.

The Locomotief is marvelous. Had heard the name, knew not a thing more. Bertus sounds like quite a guy. Always suspected the Gazelle Mondial had to be connected to a person and not just a corporation. Now we know. With old age shrinkage that frame is my size. Would jump all over that if there were a vacancy here. Not unless and until one of the current frames break.

Feldman

The Hartman bikes are nicely worked frames, and they show the 60's-70's way of building an entry level fast bike--there was no such thing as a Veloce or 105 parts system to build a bike with in those days, you pieced together what suited you or suited the shop selling the bike.

Jiveman

I've just had an email from Holland that tells me my new frame is a Hartman. It's bloody odd. But I've been hooked by the similarity of my frame number to the original posters.
Mines engraved with several H's. It's also been repainted as a Clemenso, but it's not theirs. (every Clemenso I've seen has C and heart engravings.
Here are some pictures. And the number is 04 on the left of the BB and 7276 on the right. It also has the size stamped on it.

Damn I can't get any photo URLs?

Jiveman

I think I might have a Hartman, sadly for some reason I can't lift URL's at the moment?
The frame came to me as a Clemenso, but it's clearly not. For one it has H engraved in four places and a heart with a H inside on the top eyes. All Clemensos have C engravings.
The lugs are stamped BCM (Bocama) the BB shell has five large drillings. the rear drop outs are unmarked but are fully drilled. Cable guides are on top of the BB. It also has front mech and lever brazings. So pretty loaded.
The frame number is split on the BB 40 on one side and 7276 on the other, similar to the original posters.

Most of the people that have seen it suggested it was a Van Herwerden, but they have looked at it and said no. They also passed on the info and pictures to someone 'that would know' and they came back with Hartman.
I shall try new images on my phone tomorrow.

merziac

Welcome aboard, glad you found us, you're in the right place.

You need 5 posts X 2 days for 10 to post pics and URL's

You can post pics to an album on your home page that may get moved here.

non-fixie 

Welcome, Jiveman ! Looking forward to those pictures. Seeing as you've apparently been to Voorburg you must live in that area, no?