noglider 

T-Mar

My understanding was that Yamaha was more than just a distributor, having invested in the Trusty Manufacturing Co., who had purchased Lambert's assets. It's why my posts use "Trusty/Yamaha". Trusty would late become Trusty Viscount Ltd..

crank_addict

I've researched and archived much on this ill fated company. Don't really have a reason why I have but feel it deserves far more credit.

Getting past all that, I think the failure all comes down to economics and poor decisions on target price structuring.

Price something way under competitors often creates an impression of being cheap, even if not. Then consider the fresh start r&d, tooling -overhead cost in any newly minted factory. Brutal.

vtchuck

As an FYI, here's the fork recall notice from Yamaha, from 1981. Well after Yamaha had ceased being the US distributor.

vtchuck

I am quite certain that Yamaha was just a distributor, much like Mel Pinto and others BITD. I posed the question on the Lambert / Viscount board and that seems to be the consensus as well, but there may be more responses forthcoming.

The demise of Viscount (and Lambert) was very messy, litigious and acrimonious. Difficult to get a clear, balanced picture of what actually transpired.

bikingshearer 

". . . causing loss of control and separation of the front wheel from the bicycle with the possibility of personal injury." That is a phrase to scare the beejeezus out of anyone. I also think 79pmooney would (properly) consider this a severe understatement.

digimarket

I think most of the reasons that the company failed have been identified. But they also didn't have a racing program. If they had, the failings of the components would have been revealed quite early.

I actually like my Viscount a lot. The frame is very light, absorbs bumps, has a low bottom bracket and medium-length chainstays. And the rear triangle is reasonably stiff for somebody that isn't a masher. I never thought the chrome steel fork that was on the bike when I bought it matched the frame qualities in any way. I've replaced every component on it but then I do that with every bike I buy. A Phil Wood bottom bracket without the shell works well. The brazing makes for a nice neat lightweight frame. It rides quite nicely for a lighter rider. I wish I could find a lightweight steel fork with space for fenders to go with it. I currently have a too short aluminum fork on it.
​​​​​

63rickert

They did have a race program. Even did a US tour. The guys were using bikes, not Lamberts.

palincss

The Lambert was as good an illustration of the adage that "If something is too good to be true, it probably isn't" as you will ever find.

crank_addict

Interesting. I'll later look up more of this, archived on another hard drive - saved info posted by the son of an executive from the former company. It was noted the only connection Yamaha had was U.S. distribution and possible retail through their established dealer network.

Somewhat related, elsewhere on the interwebs is mentioning Lambert pressed for exclusive bike dealers. Perhaps they attempted but didn't happen like that in the U.S..

crank_addict

I've yet to see any bona fide article of actual death caused by Lambert / Viscount fork failure. Had wrecks and bodily harm caused by poor design? Surely and as 79pmooney notes.

Yet here we are again point - counterpoint and no one had ever answered if a rider lost control or hit a large hole or such, causing the accident and hence at the moment a weak spot, call it the fork then broke. I've yet to hear any litigation against Lambert / Viscount and if its posted, no one ever gave solid basis to that.

Trek had the same issue on a Ishiwata steel frame / fork and today we have numerous related on carbon and aluminum frames. One RARELY learns of it.

Compared to the bike boon years, today the sport and recreation cycling is so minimalized that the only news might be bicyclist a detriment to distracted car drivers.

dweenk

I'm not a businessman or lawyer, but I am under the impression that when a company's assets are purchased the liabilities are as well.

crank_addict

Was Yamaha in agreement with distribution rights or actually purchased the company? I've only read of importation and distribution --- USA only.

Cope Allman International who also owned Trusty Manufacturing Co. Ltd. acquired the Lambert factory, entirely in 1973. England, btw.

uncle uncle

Generally, in an asset purchase, the purchasing company is not liable for the selling company's debts, obligations and liabilities. However, there are exceptions, such as when the buyer agrees to assume the debts, obligation or liabilities.
From:
www.bdc.ca › articles-tools › start-buy-business › buy-business › pages

repechage

That's what non disclosure agreements are for. Any worthwhile attorney would seek one with a settlement.
Not endorsing them, just how things go.

My father (an industrial designer) met with Yamaha on other design matters, at the time the bikes were in the USA HQ lobby- there was some discussion, and they were trying to figure out what to do.
He asked my opinion- I gave it, an interesting idea, not enough final R&D before production, some worthy concepts, but not durability tested before they hit the produce button.
At first glance they looked good. We discussed the fork, I questioned that the two different metals in the fork may not play well over time. He did not know the design, I drew it out. He was alarmed.
What were they thinking!

Small tangent fact- at the time Yamaha had more hardwood in storage than ANYONE.

desconhecido 

I tried to buy one of the Lambert bicycles in 1972. It's been a long time and I can't remember the details but I know that it appeared to be a screaming deal. The bike I ordered was in the middle of the range. Fortunately, as it turned out, they were not able to deliver and the dealer refunded the deposit.

I have long thought that the major problem was that their business plan was marketing driven and debt financed; basically hype the aerospace stuff and convince the jejune among us (like me, almost 50 years ago) that if "they" can send a man to the moon "they" can build a better bicycle and sell it at a better price all through the magic of deficit financing. Of course, the bicycles may have been decent (depending on whom you talk to), but they weren't of the revolutionary quality that the MadMen claimed and they couldn't deliver the product and repay the debt that was holding everything together. It was, as some people not from Texas claim that Texans say, all hat and no cattle. I've lived in Texas for 40 years and I've never heard an actual Texan say that.

Why did yamaha have all the hardwood? Musical instruments?

dweenk

Thanks for the clarification. My thought was that since Yamaha (or one of it's subordinates) participated in the recall they assumed all responsibility.

uncle uncle

Sure. Your previous comments made me curious... I was under the opposite thinking, i.e., a company could buy another company, yet not be responsible for it's liability, as that is how I remember the details from a recent buyout of a local company. It appears that it can go either way, depending on the contract. All that, and it's still not really clear what Yamaha signed themselves up for.

SurferRosa

After reading about the stronger, technologically advanced, straight-guage frame, shouldn't they have gone with straight-gauge spokes, too?

repechage

Yes, pianos among others. Really interesting company.
They also did the wood grain inserts for Lexus (at the start anyway- they have a process to obtain very very thin veneers- those get steam bent as needed, laminated to fiberglass and or aluminum or plastic and resin coated- impressive.)

Nemosengineer 

One of my greatest adventures was on a Aerospace Pro.
I was stationed aboard the USS America CV-66, I was a roof rat (flight deck V-4 division) at the time.
We pulled into Dubrovnik Yugoslavia in November 1977 we were there for 4 days. I kept a bicycle stashed in a void on board to explore the places we pulled into, I requested and was granted three days leave. So I loaded the bicycle into the liberty boat wearing a stupid dress blue uniform and was ready to invade Yugoslavia.
I clear fleet landing and pedal a few miles and down a few beers at a random cafe and continue on my way... I am still in the city when an old man shouting and waving hands stops me, says "American?, American?", I say yes, he stuffs a glass in my hand and fills it with Vodka then drags me into a courtyard, there are other old men with Vodka. I have been taken prisoner by pensioners...
As much as I try to empty the glass in my hand, it keeps filling up, finally someone shows up that half way speaks English and explains these old men fought the Nazis during the invasion of Yugoslavia and I am a guest at a wedding, makes perfect sense. The drinking and music and meeting of people continues until I pass out in a chair...
The next morning I wake up on a couch surrounded by the bride's family who I haven't met, I was aimed at the shower and my clothes were confiscated and replaced with someones street clothes some time during my shower, then the brides mother shaved my face with a straight razor while young women giggled and whispered. This was quite nice, until old men found me and forced me to drink green liqueur poured over a sugar cube with a dash of water...
Then it was time for torture as I was forced to look at scrapbooks and photo albums, by this time we were all getting good at hand gestures and I was giddy from drinking green stuff, then I was saved by one of the giggle girls, tall, pretty, blond, she pulled me away to get me back in uniform for the wedding.
The wedding was nice with many people there, then the drinking was elevated to a professional level, giggle girl and I were holding each other up after about an hour of this.

{use your imagination for the next paragraph}

This went on for one more day and I managed to find my way back to the boat before turning into a pumpkin. This was as good a it gets...

: Mike

ScottRyder 

I've got a small collection of the forks. They're really cool and quite beautiful when highly polished. Someday I'll figure how to make lamps out of them.

Cheers,

Scott

unterhausen

the one thing that always bothered me is they made all their own parts, and they were all copies. I think I rejected them out of hand when I saw the TA crank copies. And I didn't like pressed in bearings even then. Probably would have been excited about sealed bearings otherwise.

dddd

I've had a couple of the Aerospace Sport models, same frame but with chromed steel fork that was rather long in length and made of really soft steel tubing that was frighteningly easy to align using bare hands.

I used this bike for a couple of years of hard and winter training, upgraded with RSX 7s STI levers and Dura-Ace frewheel.

The bottom bracket bearings held up perfectly, even long after I unsuccessfully tried hammering out the spindle to adjust the chainline inward.

The rear hub axle locknuts were made of brass, too slippery to hold the axle's position, so replaced with steel bits.

Birmalux clincher rims were a bit lumpy, I imagine this was the result of a possibly hand-cranked or ill-maintained rolling machine used to make the hoops, where the speed was not held constant as would be needed to maintain a constant bending radius. I maintained their true the best I could, but found that the loosest spokes in the rear wheel had a habit of breaking (fortunately one at a time and not all that often).

It's probably fortunate that I don't weigh a lot, as even the bb spindles were a known failure point that I would not want to explore.

Definitely with the Aerospace Pro, a case of product testing done at customer's expense, and quality control not so much.

Both of my Aerospace Sports came from thrift stores in the early oughts, when road bikes were flooding in, followed by touring bikes.

unworthy1

"...twas BEAUTY killed the beast!"
sorry, wrong movie but couldn't resist...