one4smoke

https://www.cyclingnews.com/races/uc...e-men/results/

Entertaining race!

Rajflyboy

That was an amazing race. I watched it. Between the rain, mud, cold and mechanicals those 2 fought it out lap after lap.

M Van Der Poel is a beast.

roadwarrior

Funny how no matter the conditions, the good riders figure it out.

All the time.

Rajflyboy

I’m surprised the riders did not wear warmer stuff (I guess the extra weight and aerodynamics are that important).

Rajflyboy

It is a joy to watch individuals working hard on the bicycle and not sitting back in the peloton drafting off their teammates.

Winning based on pure talents and not team tactics.

MinnMan

I thought you'd like it....

Rajflyboy

bicycle is about individual accomplishments

MinnMan

Well, no, not for everybody, though you are entitled to your tastes.

Do you ride, Rafjaboy? In groups? If you do, then perhaps you've tasted the joys of teamwork and helping friends excel? To take just one example, when riding as a competitive group, there's something really satisfying about doing the perfect lead-out that helps a friend win a sprint. It takes effort, skill, and coordination.

If you don't ever ride in a competitive group, then maybe there's something out there for you to go and experience.

Otherwise, go ahead and groove on the cx racing. It is indeed thrilling.

Rajflyboy

i enjoy drafting. Yes I do. I enjoy the challenge of keeping up with others on the group rides. Yes I do. I enjoy talking and meeting with others who love bicycles. Yes I do. I do not race.

And yes I don’t like watching a rider sit back in the slipstream of other riders for 2050 miles and only give full effort on a few stages with steep climbs during the race. Not my thing.

MinnMan

Well great - good for you - but you wouldn't find so much adversity here if you wrote
"For me, bicycle is about individual accomplishments",
instead of

"bicycle is about individual accomplishments"

For many of us, the team sport aspect of GTs is important and a plus. If you're not wrong about your tastes, then we aren't about ours.

Rajflyboy

I’m allowed to have my opinion. You are allowed to have yours. Personally the only part I completely understand about team cycling is the finances of getting riders to a tour and lodging, food, trainers, staff, etc. I would love to see an individual TDF race so we could see which riders are genuinely the best on the planet. Van Der Poel May very well be one himself.

MinnMan

Yep

You are also entitled to dream, but your definition of best on the planet would be for a sport that doesn't and couldn't exist.

one4smoke

I agree.

The last almost decade, pound for pound, Sagan has been the best cyclist in the world. But, he will never have a yellow jersey. Something about that just isn’t right.

MinnMan

He is not a climber or a time trialist, why would one ever expect him to win the Yellow Jersey?

Sagan has SIX Green Jerseys, and those are what he goes there to win. The TdF is several contests at once, and not everybody there is hoping to win the Yellow Jersey. If one watches the TdF thinking that it's all about the Yellow Jersey, then that's not the Tour's problem. Maybe it's the problem of the broadcasters or maybe the sophistication of the viewers...

And btw, Sagan is well rewarded for being, as you say, the best cyclist in the world. His annual salary is $6M Euros, almost double that of Froome's.

one4smoke

I understand all that. But why should the TdF overall winner be one that specializes mostly in climbing? I’d like to see the format and routes changed up from time to time to give someone other than a climber an opportunity for the overall win.

Rajflyboy

this

Rajflyboy

big ups on this

MinnMan

Because if there were no serious climbing or time trials, there would be no way to put time between the GC competitors that wasn't almost entirely dependent on the teams. If it were all flattish stages, the time differences would be even more dependent on who had the strongest team or who got caught behind a crash.

It would make the race even less to Rajflyboy's liking.

MinnMan

Also, have you ever been to France? It's a mountainous country. (As is Spain and also, to a lesser extent, Italy) The concept of a "Tour de France" with a route that did not have significant mountains would negate the original intent of the race. The Tour is supposed to sample all around France. Planning 19 stages that didn't have mountains (ie., skipping the Alpes, the Pyrenees, AND the Massif Central) would pretty much negate the original intent.

Rajflyboy

Why not make it a true endurance race with a route and a start time and the rest is up to the riders/teams.

Ride as long as you want. Daytime, night time, etc. Sleep when you want. Eat when you want.

First one one to finish line wins.

ThermionicScott 

There are things like that. They're just not called "Tour de France."

MinnMan

You are just looking in the wrong place.
https://www.raceacrossamerica.org/

It's one thing to say that you like one kind of race versus another. It's another thing to think that anybody should listen when you ask that a beloved race change its format because it isn't the one you like

Rajflyboy

The stages were pretty interesting way back more than 100 years ago.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tour..._France_(1903)

ThermionicScott 

How about a 1200km race that isn’t broken up into stages at all, and is even older than the TdF, to boot?

Rajflyboy

That sounds awesome.

Would Lance or Froome be willing to compete in something like that?