kennm

Hello. I live in a small remote Alaskan town and have started to do repair work on bicycles as there is no shop here. We only have about 15 miles of paved road and many miles of bumpy dirt roads. Most people use their bikes as transportation and recreation, mountain biking isn't a thing as we live on a former glacial moraine and it is pretty flat. I purchased a Park Tool TS 2.2 and was wondering if I really needed to get the centering tool. Mostly I just want to fix out of true wheels so people can continue to ride their bikes. I am self taught and have crossed the country on my bike but have little experience with this tool. I always wanted one and could use some advice from anyone willing to give it. I am ordering a wheel alignment gauge and think perhaps I do not need both. Thank you in advance.

Bill Kapaun

You can check the dish by simply flipping the wheel in the stand.

I'd purchased a used 2.2 that was out of center.
I struggled with attempting to center it myself, but could only get it to center on one OL width at a time. Switch from say a 100 to 135mm and it was off.
I downloaded the centering instructions from PARK and followed them.
It's DEAD ON! First attempt. I might have got a little lucky?

cxwrench

You ALWAYS have to check if the rim is centered when you true a wheel...but you can do it by flipping the wheel in the stand or the frame as Bill posted.

deacon mark

I have found that getting the dish centered correct that most truing stands are not as accurate as a dish tool. The dish tool is just easier and faster. Clamping in the wheel and making sure the truing stand has things centered is not to my liking. You can easily make a dish tool for almost nothing. All you need is a straight board long enough to cover the rims and then cut out center and add a screw in the middle. If you do a lot of wheels the Park is probably worth the money.

cxwrench

Why do people insist on using the term 'dish'?

cyccommute 

I don’t know. Because it’s a term that has been used for decades? It was an old term before I started building wheels and that was 40 years ago. What else would you call it?

Bill Kapaun

Offset. As in the attached Shimano doc.

I call it dish and will continue to do so even if some kid doesn't like it.

cxwrench

"Centering". People also mistakenly use "dish" to describe the section of a rim.

GuitarRider2002

I bought the tool because I like to build my own wheels, I used other hack methods for doing it before I got the tool. The tool was worth the 30 bucks or whatever it cost. I don't generally use it when I true a wheel, unless it's really bad.

aggiegrads

I've never heard anyone call it anything other than dish/dishing. Most tool makers (Park, EVT, Abbey, etc) calls the tool a dishing tool, (Some call it a wheel alignment gauge) and every wheel builder I've spoken to says to "check dish".

I have heard it used both as a noun and as a verb. I looked at photos from my wheelbuilding class and the instructor wrote on the whiteboard: "Dish to < 0.2mm gap".

Calvin Jones and Ric Hjertberg use the term dish, as does Saint Sheldon (he uses the term "dish stick" for the tool). Jobst Brant uses the term dish, but calls the tool a "Centering Bridge".

I am curious what pro mechanics do call it - I guess I don't know any pros, only people who work in bike shops or those who build wheels for a living.

dedhed

To piss off pedantic people on the web?

Googling "wheel centering" and "wheel dishing" gives us an idea of what the world thinks of the common use of the terms.

cyccommute 

“Centering” can apply to a wide variety of issues on a bike. Brakes are centered. Wheel in the dropouts have to be centered. The rider is centered both right and left as well as back and front. “Centering” could lead to confusion. The only thing I’ve ever heard referred to as “dish” is with regards to wheels. Saying “centering of the rim” is rather uneconomical in terms of word usage. I suspect that 90% of the cycling public would look at you with a blank stare if you called dishing a wheel by that string of words. Granted the vast majority of people have no idea what “dishing” is anyway.

You lost me. I’ve not a clue of what you are trying to say.

cxwrench

You know..."deep dish aero rims". I'm sure you've heard it used before.

urbanknight

Makes me imagine a thick crust pizza every time.

Bill Kapaun

https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair...hing-centering

Geepig

So the logic is that one should not use 'dish' for the rim-to-hub offset because it might be confused with a rim shape, and instead one should use 'centering' even though only the front wheel can be centered on my derailleur equipped bike and the term could even refer to the spacers I might need to use to center the rear wheel in the frame as well as to align the brakes.

I have spent the last 20 years as an editor, and if there is one thing that I have learned is that there is no such thing as the 'proper' term, and trying to enforce any term list on even a single company is like herding cats. Even when you think you have your glossary firmly nailed down, someone develops something that screws it up.

Dish is fine by me - and the trick is often not in getting the term 'right' but the description adequate that the people reading it understand what you mean even if they use other terms.

dedhed

"Deep dish" has been an auto wheel term used to describe custom extra wide wheels with an uneven offset, you know, dishing. This was long before deep aero rims arrived in the bicycle world.
​​​​​​https://www.rimbladesusa.com/deep-dish-vs-regular-rims/

dedhed

That link doesn't show up until the middle of page 2 when you use "centering".
https://www.google.com/search?q=whee...hrome&ie=UTF-8

When you use "dish" it's 3 pages before you hit anything that ISN'T bicycle wheel related.
https://www.google.com/search?q=whee...​​

fishboat

No need to buy a dishing tool..they are a no-brainer to make. If you can fix bikes/true a wheel, you can make a dishing tool.

As for dish vs centering..potatoes, patahtoes. There was a movement for a while "speak simply and clearly".

If a word is well understood and in common use, there's not a reason in the world to substitute another word that immediately raises the question..what do you mean? English is convoluted enough without adding to the pile.

If you want to rail against a word..try "clipless" pedals. Completely bogus term. There's nothing "clipless" about, for example, an SPD pedal. You step on it and immediately clip in. You even hear a click. The old toe clips were less "clipless" than the current clipless pedals.

pdlamb

Why do people want to use words different from a word the overwhelming majority understand?

cyccommute 

Especially when the term they want to use doesn’t really describe what is going on. With a rim brake, the front wheel’s rim is “centered” on both the axle and the hub flanges. On a rear wheel (or front disc hub), the rim is centered on the axle but not on the hub flanges. Calling that offset “dish” is just an accepted way of describing it. Sometimes you just have to go with the flow. Something may be technically correct but not all that useful in real life. I really doubt that anyone at IUPAC ask for the (2R,3R,4S,5S,6R)-2-[(2S,3S,4S,5R)-3,4-dihydroxy-2,5-bis(hydroxymethyl)oxolan-2-yl]oxy-6-(hydroxymethyl)oxane-3,4,5-triol for their aqueous extraction of Coffea arabica heat treated embryonic material.

Bill Kapaun

Maybe for you.Not me.

pdlamb

But there may be come folks at the ACS who ask for de-(2R,3R,4S,5S,6R)-2-[(2S,3S,4S,5R)-3,4-dihydroxy-2,5-bis(hydroxymethyl)oxolan-2-yl]oxy-6-(hydroxymethyl)oxane-3,4,5-trio. (They're called organic chemists.)

Fun story: a couple of organic chemistry professors, co-authors of a standard graduate text, spent most of an afternoon sipping a bottle of wine while deciding what the proper systematic name of a couple couple natural products should be. The result was in the title of a refereed, published paper.

cyccommute 

Nope. Not a single one. They won’t even ask for “sucrose”. They will call it “sugar”. 40 year research chemists here. Mostly in deconstructed wood products. The wood products industry is rife with common names that are impossible to get rid of. Guaiacol is impossible to remember how to spell but hardly anyone in the industry uses 2-methoxyphenol or 1-hydroxy-2-methoxybenzene...even in papers. Like “centering”, if you uses the IUPAC name, you’ll get a whole bunch of confused looks while people figure out the systematic name. Say “guaiacol” and people will say “Oh, yeah!. That one!”...just like if you say “dish”.

If you used the IUPAC name for sugar, people would take a week to get back to you on it.

cbrstar

Here it's used in a book from 1891 Taking the Dish out of Wagon Wheels (lostcrafts.com) Then this shop that makes wooden car wheels describes the advantages of a dished wheel. Dishing of Wheels (calimerswheelshop.com) .