ZMC888

I'm a high mileage rider (about to go ride right now btw) about 400kms a week and 170 pounds (79kg). Thing is I always absolutely trash my rear wheels, they go out of true, get dinged, spokes can come undone nipples can get torn through the rim wheel bearings destroyed freehub body gouged to pieces etc.

But the front wheels...all pristine, not a scratch mark or dent, barely any sign of wear in fact.

So I'm confused? Why don't more manufacturers increase the amount of spokes on the back wheel? Instead of 24/24, why not 18/32, 16/32, or 12/36 even. Why do they make the spoke count match each wheel, just aesthetics? Weight? handling characteristics?

Also why aren't there more rear wheels available to buy a single purchases? With tires even, motorcycles MTB and road bikes I often buy three, 2 for the rear and one front seem to last about right as I always seem to wear out the rear twice as fast, for me at least.

smarkinson

You know, you can buy the rims, spokes (and nipples) and hubs that you like and get your own wheel built how you need it. If you are constantly destroying your rear wheel then that would probably be the best thing to do.

FBinNY 

Front wheels have always outlasted rear wheels, and the reality is that even if there was a massive difference in strength, fronts would still outlast rears.

Building lighter duty fronts isn't a new idea. For decades until sometime in the late sixties, the Brits were using 32/40 spokes as SOP, while those on the continent were building 36/36. Later on 32/32 became the norm for everybody.

However many high end wheels, do come with fewer spokes in front, and it's pretty much the norm in that category.

FIVE ONE SIX

a. not all wheels have a matching front and rear spoke count, some are 16/20, 20/24, 24/28, ect...

b. you wouldn't use the same spokes on say a 32 or 36 spoke rear wheel that you would a 16 or 20 spoke front wheel. the higher count spoke wheels usually use a thinner gauge spoke while the lower count spoke wheels usually use a thicker gauge spoke, which is one of the reasons (other than the hub) why a set of 36/36 Mavic Open Pro's can weigh the same as a set of out of the box 16/20 Shimano wheels.

c. obviously custom built wheels will last longer than out of the box wheelsets, so have a set made for exactly how you ride. i mean really, just get a set of Mavic Open Pro 36-spoke rims and lace them to a pair of Ultegra 6800 hubs with either Wheelsmith or DT Swiss spokes laced 3-cross front and rear, mission pretty much accomplished. if that doesn't work for you, i don't know what to tell you, cause i'm about 240# and i used that set up with Dura-Ace hubs for well over 5000 miles over 5 years ago and i never had to true them once after they were built...

ZMC888

Thanks, I'll probably try this.

chaadster

Custom built wheels are not obviously better than "out of the box" wheels. They are not necessarily better, and often are not better at all.

Fiery

Got to love this: "Have a set made for exactly how you ride. I mean really, just get a set made exactly like the one that was made for me, even though we don't weigh anywhere near the same and probably don't ride similarly."

rpenmanparker 

OP, despite your high mileage, your rear wheels should not be so badly damaged. It sounds to me like you may ride "heavily". By that I mean that you stay heavily seated through all the road hazards you encounter rather than rising up and using your legs as springs to cushion your ride. Also it is imperative to avoid hazards as much as possible. Then there is sufficient tire pressure. It is necessary to protect your rims against damage from road hazards. The first wear that careful riders see on a set of wheels is often just the thinning of the brake track from long use. Examine your riding habits and style and see if that could be the cause of your problems.

rpenmanparker 

It is often said that if you have the same number of spokes in the front and rear, then either the front has too many or the rear has too few. It is up to you to decide which is the case. I haven't ridden a set of wheels with the same number of spokes front and back for decades.

rpenmanparker 

How can that be? EVERYONE knows otherwise! Next thing you are going to say is that custom frames are not necessarily better than stock ones. Ha, ha, ha!

Jiggle

Serious answer - because other people don't destroy rear wheels like you do.

If you want beefier rears, buy a hub, some spokes, a rim, and put it together.

rpenmanparker 

Actually you've got it wrong. Usually the lightest spokes are used in the smallest numbers. Go figure.

chaadster

Yes, and that has always perplexed me. It was the "out of the box" guys, driving the "wheel as a system" concept, who got it first, spec'ing proprietary, wide spokes in low counts on slotted hubs, later mixing in features like dual flange height and straight pull spokes.

It was a long time ago that craftsmanship was the prime differentiator in wheels, but in the modern era, engineering and design tech has put a big gap between the best crafted wheels, and the "out of the box" builders have an undeniable advantage in that regard.

joejack951

Because of road hazards or loose spokes or both? The former is all on you. Road bikes aren't tanks. The latter should not be an issue on a properly built wheel but I'm sure it happens. On a pre-built wheel, I see it all the time. Catch it as early as you can, like before you even start riding the wheel. Or, as soon as you see the wheel go out of true, have an experienced builder go over and even out the tensions. I'm of similar weight and have put 25,000+ miles on a hand built rear wheel (my own build) using all weight weenie parts aside from 32 spokes, and never once had to true it.

Avoid road hazards.

See above. Make sure the wheel is properly tensioned before riding it

Are you using eyeletted rims? Brass nipples?

Wear or contamination? My highest mileage hubs with cartridge bearings still spin perfectly and they get used in all sorts of weather.

Don't use cheap aluminum Shimano-splined freehubs. American Classic has the best gouge protection design I've seen but others have at least some protection now, too. Campagnolo cassettes and freehubs have far more engagement and are probably the best solution. With 11 speed shifters, you can use any brand cassette so perhaps it's a route you should consider.

Clipped_in

Because it is cheaper for them to build with fewer spokes (more profit and or cost competitiveness), and the general public has willingly and thoroughly embraced the idea that this is better. Not much in the ways of wheels these days is very rational as far as the buying public is concerned. Vanity rules to a large extent and the manufacturers try to provide what the buyers want.

joejack951

Counterpoint: 1.1 | Trek Bikes

Probably the best selling road bike given the brand name and price tag. 32 spokes F/R

If you only go looking for ultra-low spoke count wheelsets, that's probably all you'll find. But I'd argue that there are more sensibly built wheelsets sold every day than anything else.

Carbonfiberboy 

CK hub, 28H or 32H Kinlin XC279 rim, CX-Ray spokes. Never another problem.

Dan333SP

If OP is stuck with cheap freehubs, there's a bit of a workaround for that where you sand down the gouges and cut tiny strips of metal to protect the edges of the splines. It's a PITA to get everything to stay in place, but it can be a cheap fix for an otherwise expensive problem.

linsdog

New Math strikes again...

Seattle Forrest

The Enves I'm about to buy are 24 spokes front and rear. I would guess having more spokes in the rear wheel makes sense, but I'm sure Enve knows more about wheel building than I do. I chose the wheels because of the way they perform and for their strength, leaving the details up to the builder.

ThermionicScott 

One thing I've learned from the Rene Herse book is that its eponymous builder was playing around with 28/36 spoked wheelsets in the late 1930s.

fietsbob

"they" do but Roadies are usually trend driven and so the latest thing is what the sellers Promote ..
they Know the customer behavior.. and play with it.

I recall reading cycling news .. at the start of the Paris-Roubaix Race, they were seemingly surprised to find one of the competitors starting out on a set of 32 spoke 3 cross , Ambrosio hard anodized Rims, Sew Ups of course ..

and the brake track wear thru the dark anodizing suggested this was not the first time Use of those wheels ..

But maybe their Paying Sponsors did not have a Wheel set they wanted to prove By having them ridden
in that race over those famous ancient cobbled roads ,

so the team mechanics took out what had proven to work before.





'/,

Dave Mayer

Wisdom.

On my rain road bike, I have 32 spokes on the front, and 36 on the rear.

In addition, I use heavier duty rims and tires on the rear. So a 23mm race tire on the front, and a 25 or 28mm Gatorskin on the rear. The rear rim is about 100 grams beefier than the front.

rmfnla

Or he could be one of those riders who takes pride in how hard they are on their equipment.

Anyone who has wrenched will know what I mean...

indyfabz

And does that give you Enve envy?