calamarichris

For you guys & gals who have carbon, aluminium or titanium frames in the same size as your beloved steel frames, what is the actual weight difference?

I did a few searches, but most have been more insulting than insightful, and Google searches have turned up more illuminating claims, but have any of you guys weighed your 58cm steel frame and weighed your 58cm carbon (or aluminum or titanium) frame?
What's the real-world weight difference? A pound? 800 grams? A full water bottle?

Many thanks in advance! Safe riding and Happy Holidays!

rat fink

Comparing 56cm frames, new high end and vintage high end, I have usually found it be right around about 1.5-2 pounds minimum.

Henry III

I'd have to say the same as Rat Fink mentioned. I have a 48cm carbon frame(just a hair below 1200g) with full carbon full. Then the steel frame I built this past summer double that. It's built with a mixture of tube brands. Though once built up that only weighs just a little over 17lbs. The carbon bike was like low 16's. I wasn't very happy with the ride of the carbon bike as it was nice and stiff but so much it beat me up riding it. I'll take the weight differnce and knowing what I'm riding isn't going to break unknowingly and catastrophically. Now my Colnago Mix which is Columbus Airplane aluminum with carbon seat stays fully built is almost close to what the carbon bike built up with the same components and still rides a lot better. No more plastic bikes for me...besides my bike with the plastic stays. lol.

GrayJay

4.5 lbs is probably a fairly typical weight for a vintage frame made from SL or 531 but keep in mind that steel bikes have progressed since the 1980's. A modern steel bike made from todays high-strength thin wall steel and larger diameter tubes is a very high performance ride. Steel frames can be made that are below 3.0lbs.

busdriver1959

I believe True Temper had a frame built up for themselves that came in right at 1 kilo. I'm assuming I was tig and not lugged. I don't know which tubeset was used, probably not hard to figure out if you look at their product lineup though.

cruiserhead

all steel frame and fork, db reynolds cromo- fixed, no brakes = about 19-21lbs
carbon road w/ DuraAce group - 16-17lbs

significant price difference.
Steel weight is a non-issue, imo. It's just a joy to ride and a good steel bike can be built up to within several lbs of a carbon.

KonAaron Snake 

About 2 pounds was my answer - a lot of the weight savings in modern whizz bang bikes comes in the wheelsets and saddles. I love titanium as a frame material, but it's not really because of weight to me.

mazdaspeed

2lbs is about right in my case

cruiserhead

I like stainless or db steel over Ti. I've raced 6AL and 3AL Ti frames and I just like steel better, but we all have our preferences! That's what makes the world go round...

A lot of weight can be added or lost depending on the fork. A pure carbon fork is much lighter than a steel one.

As to ride, aluminum is the harshest. Carbon is very comfortable to harsh depending on the layup- it's all adjustable with carbon.
Stainless is just wonderful, to me.

KonAaron Snake 

Cue builder vs. materials discussion.

Materials don't have an inherent feeling - it's what's done with them. You can have a whippy aluminum frame and a stiff as a board steel frame, all depending on the tubing diameter, BB and frame design. Most aluminum frames are built in the Klein/Cannondale mold - stiff as heck.

MetinUz

In addition to fork itself, quill stem and aluminum bars can be significantly heavier than threadless carbon stem and bars.

Italuminium

on stems and bars: most top-end Weight weenie stems are alluminium - getting them down to hundred grams. Carbon weighs about the same in the high end, but costs 3 times as much. Off course there are companies like ax lightness, but I'm talking stuff that's at least common market and is expected to be usable on a regular ridden bike.

Regarding frame responsiveness in relation to material: denser materials "ring" nicer - acoustics and ride feelings are correlated in a funny way. Hence bells are made of brass, not plastic and steel frames have that nice "zing" to them (unless it becomes overdampened by build/wall thickness). Alloy isn't as nice to the touch - and I love to ride alloy because it has an extra, communicative quality and a sense of lightness and purpose which I like. It has nothing to do with stiffness by the way. My ALAN is very whippy, whilst my Principia (which is somewhat of a crit bike) is hugely stiff.

vinfix

Easily 2 lb.s, could be 4 or more. I haven't owned a carbon frame, but I've put a lot of miles on vintage aluminum. Steel is heavier and always will be, but it's a more comfortable, solid, yet "alive" ride. I suppose people bash steel for the weight, and being old fashioned, but the only advantage I hear claimed about carbon bikes is they're lighter. I do have a steel fixed gear I put a carbon fork and seatpost on, and it seems the best of both worlds, like riding on glass.
I've tried Ultegra-level full carbon bikes like Specialized, Trek, Scott, Cannondale- they're nice, but generic. Subtle differences between them, and you have to spend a LOT more to get noticeable improvements. You could spend $2000 on a mid level 19# carbon bike, or a fraction of that on a 21-22# vintage steel ride and have just as much fun.

mazdaspeed

IMO there is a noticeable difference in stiffness when comparing a steel frame to a good modern alu/cf one. The stiffness makes it feel better when climbing or sprinting IMO. Other than that the weight difference isn't that huge of a deal, with light wheels it's not that hard to get an SL frame (or similar) bike under 20lbs. Besides the frame modern components can be significantly lighter, I have a thomson seatpost that weighs 180g, vintage campy can't touch that. If you took a new fizik racing saddle / light post combo then compared it to a vintage post / brooks combo I'm sure there's well over a pound right there. Wheels are the big one though, these days sub 1500g clinchers aren't unusual or exotic, It's probably unusual to find a vintage wheelset that's under 1900g.

cruiserhead

interesting description of materials, I like!

In general, I have found Ti to be a nice material but <for me> not the be-all-end-all that it is sometimes hyped as. I've put thousands of miles on various Ti bikes so I feel comfortable saying that. But, I know it's religion, so I will emphasize "FOR ME".

my preferences: steel=carbon>aluminum>ti
Nicest frame I have ever ridden was a Eddy Merckx carbon- I was sad to see that one go. It was as perfect a bike as I have ever had.
I wonder if they maintained that now that they are made in Taiwan... maybe I'll be able to ride one again someday.

I really want my next road bike to be custom stainless. Who knows, with all the good deals on carbon bikes, it's easy to get a really great perfoming bike for a very good value.

To be honest, within a few pounds, it's ok. If you are around 18lbs, it's a light bike. Easier to do with carbon.
Let's say price being equal, you will get a lighter bike with carbon.

Scooper

The two pound difference number keeps popping up, and I question its validity.

Since calamarichris asked about frame weights, for the sake of argument let's assume that bikes with steel, titanium, or carbon can all be equipped with wheels and other components that weigh the same.

My 61cm (c-t) Waterford RS-22 frame made with Reynolds 953 tubing weighs 1650g, or about 3.6 pounds. In order for a similar size titanium or carbon frame to be two pounds lighter, it would have to weigh 1.6 pounds, or about 726g.

Does anyone know of a similar size (equivalent of a 61cm conventional geometry) 700g or 800g titanium or carbon frame? Just looking at road frame weights on weightweenies, there doesn't appear to be but a couple of large frames under 1000g (2.2 pounds). Most are in the 1200g to 1400g range.

Italuminium

Indeed stan, most WW's seem to ride frames WAY too small. I think the material advantage disappears as soon as you get to the larger sizes, as your example has shown. BTW - that Waterford is one of the best bikes in this forums! it also shows how far steel has come. And 953 is not the top of the heap, either in terms of weight. Some builders (like Rob English - amazing craftsman) have come down to 1300 grams with Columbus spirit or True Temper S3. That's mid-end carbon/alloy or top end titanium, when comparing weights

and on the post/saddle combo: a fizik-thompson combo is still a hundred grams heavier than what I run: KCNC post (cut) with a tune speedneedle saddle - just shy of 250 grams in total. There are people getting it down to 150. Mental.

longbeachgary

If I remember correctly my MXL was 4.2 pounds w/o fork and right about 6 with.

cruiserhead

Scooper,
Are you forgetting the fork? Steel fork is about a pound heavier than carbon.

Scooper

No, I'm not forgetting the fork; I'm intentionally leaving it out.

I was comparing frame weight of different materials. My point was that frames of any material can be equipped with similar components. My steel frames can easily be equipped with CF forks and threadless headsets/stems.

bikingshearer 

To make sure everyone is talking apples-to-apples here, we need to know if we are weighing the CF frames before or after they catch fire, fall over and sink into the swamp.

calamarichris

Any links?

Thanks for the interesting points. I figured the difference was about a pound, but I feel a little silly talking about shaving grams, when I've gained at least 6 pounds since Thanksgiving.

I ask because my current Felt F55 workhorse (which was a free replacement 4 years after I snapped a chainstay in '09) is starting to bubble underneath the paint at the bottom bracket, and I'm thinking about promoting (i.e. moving my power meter to) one of my '86 Pelotons, or perhaps the Look-Hinault beauty I'm preparing to buy from Jan.
My steel bikes are noticeably heavier, but if I can get used to riding with an extra 6-7 pounds of gut, riding with an extra 16-20 ounces of frame material should be no problem.

I spent most of my junior and senior highschool years with hip-to-ankle slabs of beef-jerky scabs resulting from my many USCF crit pile-ups, but I was never able to knock that first Peloton frame askew. Can't say as much about my aluminum-carbon Felt...

miamijim

My Vitus 997 is under 16 with vintage tubulars but it's built with a lot of very light parts. In my general experiences 1 to 1.5lbs is the norm.

Scooper

Here 'ya go:
Weightweenies road frames

balindamood

Mazdaspeed- If you have not yet converted the Colnago to modern stuff, and you still plan on doing so, you could do a bit of an experiement for us. I have a magazine pullout from a couple of years ago which they took a Fisher FS 29'er, took it completely apart, and weighted every bit of it. IT was kind of surprising. It would make a neat comparison, if you are up for it. It will also likely make this thread shorter.