corrado33

Yep, have gone down twice. Even at super lower pressures (read, lower than the minimum on the tire) I still slip on glare ice. Note: The type of ice I'm talking about is the type that you can slip the back tire by pedaling hard, let along trying to stop/turn. (I've tried everything between "super low" to "low" to "minimum tire pressure on sidewall" to "slightly higher than that.") The lower the better for traction obviously. Honestly, when I first got them I gave them a glowing review. They're GREAT if you only ride on PATCHES of ice, which is exactly what the @PaulRivers thread says. They're GREAT for mostly ice free roads with just a bit of ice and as much packed snow as you want, because they're great on that as well. BUT, and that's a BIG BUT, if you ride on any amount of glare ice for any time, these are not the tires for you. Period. I actually am debating buying the schwalbe marathon winters. (But I just built up a nice 26 inch bike that can take my 26 inch nokian tires, so I'll stick with that when the ice gets really bad.)

I DO have to admit though, both times I've gone done were non-ideal. The first time I had just finished adjusting my jacket when a car pulled onto the road I was on, I shoved my hand in my pogie and grabbed a bit too much front brake the first time (which locked up for a half second causing me to go down.) It was sliding when it locked up, it didn't throw me. The second time I was about to make a left turn (onto the same road.) I looked over my shoulder and saw a slow moving car 60-70 meters behind me. "Plenty of time" I told myself, "As long as I turn across the lane at THIS instant." I did just that. I leaned ever so slightly, my front tire washed and I went down, sliding a good 20 meters on the ice. Note, I'm not a newbie riding on ice. I have 2 seasons on my nokian studs. I just don't think these studs are quite up to par as my 4 row nokian 26 inch mountain bike tires. (For obvious reasons.) I will keep the Xerxes, but only for non hellishly icy days.

EDIT: OH! One last thing. The Xerxes SUCK to ride at low pressures. Their rolling resistance increases a TON when you get to around the minimum pressure rating. They're awesome at normal pressures for clear pavement, but they are horrid at low pressures (kind of a catch 22 if you read the above.)

Would I recommend them? Probably not. It's safer (albeit slightly slower) to just go with the schwalbe marathon winters. I would love to do a comparison between the Xerxes and normal non studded tires, but I'm afraid to try honestly. (And I don't have any treaded 700c tires available to me.)

FBinNY 

Sorry to hear about that. I hope it's a simple fracture that only needs immobilization vs. something more serious needing pins and the like. Best wishes for a speedy and complete recovery from what I hope turns out to only be an inconvenience.

HardyWeinberg

ouch. Pay attention to physical therapy when she is able!

Jim from Boston

Thanks for those replies. She has some mobility problems, and the walking cast adds to her difficulties, but with support she’s doing OK. On top of that, my wife went away for a long-scheduled vacation yesterday. So I’ve had to rearrange my schedule to get her off to school. No complaints mind you, but I’ve curtailed my cycle commute for a few days.

Artkansas 

Well, yesterday I successfully made it down Cedar Hill Rd. It had not rained recently so that spot at the top was safe. There had been a light dusting of snow during the night though. I descended slowly and safely. However, as I got to work I pulled into the traffic lanes to cross the street and turn into the parking lot at work, my front tire went out from under me and I hit the pavement hard. It's the first time I was glad I had a helmet on. Elbow and knee were bloodied, but they were already bloody from last week where a car hit my handlebar with their mirror sending me down. My shoulder hurt, again it already hurt from last week. The surprise pain was in my leg next to my pelvis. I guessed that I bruised a muscle. I hobbled around at work as long as I could but requested to go home early when others arrived. I took the bus home and then looked up on line to see what was in the area where I hurt and discovered the femoral artery. So today I called in sick.

2manybikes

The Nokian 26" Extreme 294 will go right over all of these types of ice. On ice always remember to never bank the bike in a corner. Keep the bike straight up and turn the bars a little. The colder and flater the ice, the better the studs grab the ice and keep you going. With 15-20 psi in mine I go straight over frozen 3" deep foot prints on paths. The low pressure helps a lot with the uneven surface. They grab ice the best. snow no difference from knobbies unless there is hard pack underneath. And Pavement not as good as no studs.

Artkansas 

That was my problem, I had been riding on that street for a little while without problem. I did not expect ice.

However, at the exact point I needed to start getting over, a storm drain or something completely blocked the shoulder so I started pulling over without thinking much. Ootherwise I would have stopped and waited for a better crossing. It was my first time going that way, construction blocked my usual path to work, so I was unfamiliar with the road there.

How are the Nokians when there isn't ice? They are awful expensive and it seems like riding them on what would be 99.999% asphalt and concrete would wear them out rapidly.

I-Like-To-Bike

Do the Nokian 26" Extreme 294 warn riders of patches of invisible black ice ahead too? Unless a rider assumes black ice is everywhere and never banks in any corner and ALWAYS rides with the bike straight up I doubt that studded tires will help riders avoid black ice mishaps like Artkansas suffered.

2manybikes

Of course not. That's too obvious to bring up. I ride straight up all the time, if there could be ice. The tires work fine on black ice. Keep scanning the ground anyway as you go.

2manybikes

I always expect ice if conditions make it possible. Keep the bike straight up all the time, even on pavement. Scan the ground and be ready to slip at all times. They are heavy and slow. I don't ride mine a lot on the pavement. But I have taken them on a few 20-30 mile rides on dry pavement. They are over ten years old. I would expect only a coupe of years, if you use them to commute. They have cylindrical studs with a flat across the top of the stud. This design grabs the ice and last a long time.
The studs never get shorter,the end gets rounded, and the tire casing behind the studs lets them sink in a little over time. I have taken out many studs and measured them with a caliper.
The Schwalbe Ice Spike pro has pointed studs, the point wears away quickly. I 'll probably wear them out this year and go back to the old Nokians.

I-Like-To-Bike

Really? Can your "scanning" technique reliably spot black ice all the time, even in darkness, far enough ahead to straighten up and avoid changing course, changing lanes, or do any kind of leaning at all in a turn? You must have better eyes than me.

But then again, why scan for black ice at all if studded tires "work fine" on black ice?

mconlonx

Guy I know rides his mtn bike with regular knobbies through the winter. I asked about ice and he says, "Ya, it is slippery, but I've figured out that with just the right pressure, it's good enough for some traction. Thing with riding on ice is, it keeps you in the moment -- as long as you are paying 100% attention to your riding 100% of the time, you can ride ice, but the minute your attention wavers, you'll probably go down."

I'm not that zen. I keep a spare bike set up with studded tires... I went cheap, generic tires with steel studs, not the more expensive carbide studs -- for the amount of time I use it, and considering how infrequently I ride when the roads are ice-hazardous, they are fine, have lasted through a few seasons, and I anticipate keeping them for winter duty until they start cracking at the sidewall sometime within the next decade or so.

Seattle Forrest

If I wanted to ride a bike in the snow and ice, I'd have to drive 200 miles to do it.

2manybikes

You missed the first two sentences of my post.

I always expect ice if conditions make it possible. Keep the bike straight up all the time, even on pavement. Scan the ground and be ready to slip at all times.


All the time means all the time.

A tire working fine on black ice is not slipping when the bike is straight up. If you want to lean your bike when there may be ice, be my guest, wear a helmet. Clearly you have no idea how to ride on ice. In darkness my light is about the same as my car on low beams. I ride straight up anyway. With two studded tires weighing about 2 lbs each, there's no fast anything. Scanning the ground at bicycle speeds is easy when you're used to doing it on a Motorcycle on ice, snow, soft beach sand, hard packed dirt, and soft ground. At extreme low speeds mud, and water up to the seat.

In the right conditions I have ridden across a lake with a friend with no studs on either bike, thick strong ice, but a warm sunny day, the very top is not too slippery if you keep the bike straight up. That is the photo........his Univega, my Litespeed. yes he has on sneakers ???

With cold hard flat ice and on hardpacked snow on the road, I bank the bike when the conditions permit, almost as much as the pavement. Not the same when riding straight over 3" deep footprints hard as rock, that calls for straight up even in a fishtail. Counter steer just like a car and keep the bike up straight, keep pedaling, the back comes into line and keep going.

heywood

Here in Toronto we're about 2 months icy conditions..really couldn't be bothered with studded tires for only 8 weeks, i just load up on podcasts and transit until it goes away..usually by mid-march.. hmmph..

I-Like-To-Bike

Do you ride in traffic even though you believe road conditions so bad that you are ready to slip at all times? If so, don't expect much from your helmet. Do you also ride in traffic in icy conditions no different than if you were riding on a trail, lake or some other place where motorized vehicles do not travel?

My previous comments were meant to be skeptical about reliance on super duper studded tires as a satisfactory solution/answer to the dangers of unseen and unexpected patches of black ice on otherwise non slippery road, the conditions encountered by Artkansas when he suffered his surprise accident.

2manybikes

Riding keeping the bike up right all the time will in fact allow one to go straight over unseen black ice. I agree doing this next to traffic always has the potential of falling into traffic, and is a bad idea. Every time I encounter black pavement during potential ice forming conditions I ride straight over it and keep the bike straight up. I'm doing it all the time anyway. Studded tires have the best traction on ice. If there is a choice ride on black ice instead of slush or snow.
I do agree that super fat studded tires will not save you from everything, nothing will.
Black ice is not a problem this way, but, there are many other conditions that super duper tires will not save you from. Slush with nothing hard for the studs to grab, snow hiding frozen ruts, even visible hard frozen ruts. Under these conditions I don't ride in traffic.

I agree big studded tires won't save you from every thing. But when done correctly black ice is not one of them.

ChloeP

Props to you guys. I usually stop cycling at the slight site of ice (any kind).

I-Like-To-Bike

And an even badder idea if cycling on streets and roads where cycling requires riding IN traffic is the only cycling option for getting to desired destinations, not next to traffic, i.e. narrow traffic lanes with no parallel rideable shoulder or bike lane.

Not every cycling destination can reached by riding on straight wide roads that require no turning maneuvers or riding IN traffic. If unseen black ice is likely on such streets/roads a cyclist reasonably concerned about his own safety should give serious thought to finding an alternate method of transportation for the duration of the icy conditions.

Depending on a helmet and fancy tires for adequate protection from likely black ice on streets/sudden-slip-in-traffic conditions maybe better than carrying a rabbit's foot; but not much.

Jim from Boston

Now, see these road surfaces photographed at around 32° F, a MUP and a Road:



Wet Roads or Black Ice?

That Road is narrow, well-traveled, curving, a fairly steep uphill, and virtually impossible to maintain a nearly perfect straight to avoid slipping. Riding a straight line is the only option if you come upon a short stretch of ice, but too nerve-racking for any length; better to walk it.

2manybikes

Obviously if I say riding next to traffic is a bad idea, then it clearly means riding in traffic is a bad idea too. I also don't mean that a helmet and tires save you either, I don't remember saying that. Nor do I mean it's always possible to handle ice correctly. Almost an infinite number of things can go wrong. I think I agreed to this at least twice already.

I have only one point. With studded tires that have plenty of studs in the center of the tread so that there are always plenty of studs on the ground, seen or unseen black ice does not require you to change course. You can just ride straight over it without falling. The harder colder flatter and smoother the ice is, the better the studs have something hard to grab, keeping you from falling. Soft snow can be more slippery. I know the initial reaction is that black ice, or any ice is always a problem, especially if you have not been riding on black ice for a few decades. At first it is difficult to convince yourself to even try it. It seems backwards.

You can continue to come up with scenarios that will cause a crash on ice practically forever. After a while it gets to be the same old thing over and over. Last night coming home well after dark, the light gray color of the old pavement was a sharp contrast to the black ice spots, and easy to see, but there no reason to do anything other than just ride over it. Now you can post that on new black pavement that does not work.

gerv 

I do some bus riding in the winter, but I really enjoy taking a break from it and studded tires allow me to commute more often in the winter. So far this week, it's two days of bus and two days of riding. Weather is cool but clear, so sounds like another bike day.

Walter S

Oh - that's all. Similarly, driving while not crashing into anything will keep you safe in a car. Walking and not falling down is a good way to get around on foot. And if you take a plane then show up on time or they might leave without you.

2manybikes

I thought it was way to obvious to mention too, until I started to post in this thread. It appears that it needs to be mentioned. ??

Roody

I too love winter riding.

Ice biking (riding on frozen lakes and rivers) is especially fun. It's surreal, like being in a new world that's totally shaded in tones of white and off-white. I have seen bobcats within the city limits, as well as drunken ice fishermen and other exotic wildlife.

IME, studs really do work very well. Icy pavement rarely poses a problem. Most of my slide-outs have been on wooden surfaces like boardwalks and docks. One time I rode all over town on glare ice without a single fall or close call. Then I got to parking lot that had been totally cleared of ice. I sped up a little, and wiped out on a patch of rock salt. I broke a couple ribs that time, but I couldn't blame it on the ice.