TimothyH

R+E has a stock of tubes.

My frame was manufactured March 2018


-Tim-

GailT

R+E is also building frames with Vari-Wall THERMLX, the replacement for True Temper. I also heard that Waterford was impressed with Vari-wall's product. It would be interesting to hear from R+E and Waterford if they prefer Vari-Wall over True Temper Ox Platinum, or True Temper S3.

Clem von Jones

I love the look of that tapered straight steel fork on the 853 Genesis Croix de Fer. Does anyone know roughly what a frame like that weighs, and if you can buy them in the USA without a $500 shipping fee? The Niner frame is a boat anchor.

Danny01

Many nice options mentioned so far. Here's another:

Seven Evergreen

However, for truly high end steel I would consider a custom stainless frame like 953. I haven't come across a disc stainless frame yet, but most if not all the builder who use 953 are custom builders and will likely do anything you want including custom geometry and disc brakes.

softreset

It's not 953, but Condor just released their Gravel stainless using Columbus XCr Stainless steel.

https://www.condorcycles.com/collect...nless-frameset

Marcus_Ti

You won't find anyone working 953 for gravel. Period. It​​​ is too dent prone. The same wayt thinness that makes it so light, also reduces durability-in a scenario like it road riding with gravel.

853 is the best compromise for a high end steel for off-road

Danny01

In the past the same argument has been made of 853 for touring bikes. You don't have to call it a gravel bike. A relaxed geometry road bike with larger tire clearance and maybe disc brakes is all a gravel bike it. If you request such a bike, custom builders builders who work with 953 will do that. Period.

austex

Milwaukee Mettle, made by Waterford and now using Vari-wall THERMLX might be of interest.

raria

Glad you know what you want but why 853? Its main benefit is weight while gravel riding seems to value longevity.

Also that frameset below is 3360 grams! Thats over 7 pounds which is what a Surly LHT in 4130 weights


why 853

TimothyH

A size 56 RLT 9 frameset is 2780 grams.

Is Niner's RLT 9 Steel Gravel Bike for Me? - Niner Bikes Life

The competitive website is wrong.

-Tim-

wsteve464

KeatonR

Anyone know anything about this bike, and whether it would also work with 700c? Never heard of the brand, but they're claiming a pretty light weight for the setup:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2018-Chumba....c100005.m1851

Chumba Terlingua

Realizing I may prefer a more classic horizontal TT, which the Gunnar appears to have and the Macho King kinda comes close to. But trying to remain open to sloping.

shoota 

Did you try googling at all? https://www.chumbausa.com/terlingua-700c-650bplus/

Kind of annoying I can't find the steel they use.

Spoonrobot 

5 pound frame is a lot for a gravel bike. Average gravel bike like the Soma Double Cross Disc is under 4.5 pounds for the 56 and has pretty normal mid-tier tubing. Frame weight has an outsize effect on ride quality. A half pound difference between two same size frames is huge for ride quality.

I bet the fork is closer to 1.75 pounds making the frame closer to 4.5 pounds - which is reasonable for a "light" frame built the way Niner describes it as:

This spreadsheet is interesting comparison to tubing specs and frame weight if you can find the numbers: Direct link to Google Sheet

Thread

raria

But it still does not seem right.

The Soma Smoothie frame in lowly Tange Prestige weights 4 pounds (1800g) in 56cm.

The whole point of 953 is weight saving ...

TimothyH

@Spoonrobot answered this.

Niners are designed and built to mountain bike specs, not road bike specs. They are not incredibly light machines, but they are designed to take a beating.

This is one reason why I bought the RLT 9 RDO, because the geometry and ride is like an endurance road bike but the carbon layup is done like a mountain bike.

Anyway, light is relative. If you really want light then get a custom.

By the way... Soma Smothie - Size 56 - $995
https://www.excelsports.com/main.asp...or=14&minor=13

mstateglfr 

Gravel riding doesnt value longevity any more than paved road riding. Some gravel bikes are work horses and some gravel bikes and featherwieghts. Same as paved road riding.

Regardless, 853 isnt delicate. Its a very well engineered tubing product that can be built into a strong and reliable frame.

mstateglfr 

I would love a well worded and informed response as to why the Prestige Soma uses is 'lowly'.

unterhausen

The current version of Prestige seems to be just 4130 and is not well regarded among framebuilders. The old stuff was very highly regarded. I have never built with either, so no direct experience.

mstateglfr 

Yes, the current version is different from the original. The current version is still seamless double butted and heat treated.

current tube specs
.8/.5/.8 top tube and down tube
.9/.6 seat tube
.8 chainstay
.8 even taper seat stay, or .8/6 seat stay
1.0 even taper fork blades


The butting profiles can be found here since that is important.
https://www.tange-design.com/tubing_detail.php?sn=52


I just find it funny to hear tubing with the above stats is 'lowly'. Its seamless, heat treated, and has good all around butting profiles. Based on the poster's comments here and elsewhere on tubing and frame design, his opinion is hardly well informed.



Edited to add- this product is based on the traditional Prestige tubing https://www.tange-design.com/tubing_detail.php?sn=47
I thought it would be helpful for general interest and comparative purposes. Like the other link, it shows the different butting profiles which is just as important as anything else in designing a quality frame.
The Prestige tubing in Soma frames is basically .1mm thicker than the Japan Prestige tubing.

Since nobody on the internet seems to know the tubes Soma uses(meaning which specific tubes since they vary in butting profile), lets assume they use the heaviest possible tubes. While that may mean a bike that is overbuilt for some riders, it will also mean a bike that is properly build for many others.
To me, that doesnt mean a frame or its tubing is 'lowly'. To me it means the frame and tubing matches the rider's needs.
General frames will typically error on the side of supporting more weight, at the expense of ride quality for lighter riders. From a general frame design perspective, that makes the most sense.

Spoonrobot 

Bikedud

I don't think you would be disappointed with the All-City Macho King. Reynolds 853, wonderful Wisky through axle carbon fork, and a fantastic ride- I love my All-City. Do everything except race on it. Put Conti 28's on for road riding and Panaracer 38 Gravel Kings for everything else.

KeatonR

EdwinHeadwind

Before you pull any triggers, check out the Fairdale Rockitship. I have the road version of this frameset, and it's probably the best-handling bike I've ever ridden -- I'm talking Tommasini-level roadfeel. The tubing is custom-butted for each frame size, so the 52 rides just like the 58. For a grand, it's an outstanding value. With the Enve fork, you're practically stealing it.

Elvo

https://www.norco.com/bikes/dirt-dro...arch-xr-steel/