GmanUK65

I think I already know a bit about training with a HRM but Im not sure.

A couple of days ago I tried to find my max heart rate using a spin bike and HRM. The method I used I read on the Internet (before I start I am 51 years old and so as a guesstimate using the 220 - age my max HR would be 169). The method it stated to use was as follows:

10 minute warm up followed by 9 minute slight intensive pedalling (I was cycling at 100 to 105 cadence). After 9 minutes, a 30 second sprint followed by an all out fast sprint (pedal as fast as you can) for 30 seconds. The HR showing at the end of this is max HR. Mine showed 181.

Now heres where Im slightly confused. I went out for a ride today for around 30 minutes and my HR was mainly between 155 and 175 and when pedaling it stayed in this range, and there were no big hills. I was hardly out of breath (a HR of this with a max of 181 wouid be between 85 and 97% of my max HR). I know that a HR of this is exercising anaerobically and at 97% I would have thought I would be puffing and panting a lot of which I wasn't

Could this mean I have a higher maximum HR or is it that I need to train more so that when I pedal my HR is in a lower range of say, 125 to 150, or any other suggestions?

Seattle Forrest

How are you measuring your heart rate?

Speedskater

Depending on what activity and how long you are doing it, your max heart rate will be all over the place.
A friend of mine was a serious short track ice speedskater. Now he is a serious master's bike racer and only comes to speedskating practice occasionally (but still goes real fast). He data logs all of his work-outs. He reports that the speedskating max is crazy high compared to anything he see's in a bike race.

Carbonfiberboy 

That's not even close to your max HR. At max HR you are very close to blacking out and after a much more extreme effort. Because it's so difficult to find, it's no longer recommended to use to find your zones. Instead, we now use lactate threshold heart rate (LTHR) on which to base our zones. There are many different methods to find LTHR. There's a sticky about it at the top of this forum. Another popular method is here: CTS Field Test Instructions and Training Intensity Calculations - CTS

A decent way to estimate LTHR is to climb a long hill, one that takes you about 20' to climb. Find the maximum HR you can sustain on that hill without blowing up. It will be when you are breathing deeply and very fast. The point where you can no longer breathe deeply at all, but are forced to start panting is just beyond your LT, so if you get there, back it off a little bit.

GmanUK65

Thanks for that. I have heard of the LTHR but dont know much about it. I thought it was the point of optimum performance, the point in which the heart is pumping the most oxygen around the body without lactate acid being built up. But, as I said I dont know much about it so I could be wrong.

I do see your point though because if I go past my LTHR this will cause more lactate acid build up faster than my heart can pump oxygen around my body. Too much lactic acid build up eventually leads to cramps and then this will soon lead on to in cycling terms bonking. In other words cycling below my LTHR leads to longer cycling and over the LTHR less cycling.

I think I will focus on finding my LTHR now, though I will have to find a long enough hill as I live in North East of England where the hills are mostly short and steep

Thanks again this has been of great help.

Seattle Forrest

LTHR = the greatest intensity you can maintain a steady state at. You can go over it (unlike your "max") but you're burning matches when you do.

Another method of finding it is to run a 10k, and take your average HR for the race.

Garmin has had technology for about a year to detect your LTHR. They have a guided test where they take you through each zone, and an auto-detect that will find it on regular workouts as long as you cross it a few times.

Carbonfiberboy 

There's a lot of misinformation out there, plus it can be confusing trying to find out anything much about this on the web. The best thing to do is to buy this book: The Cyclist's Training Bible by Joe Friel: https://www.amazon.com/Cyclists-Trai.../dp/1934030201

Speedskater

I wrote:
He reports that the speedskating max is crazy high compared to anything he see's in a bike race.

Later I watched the track cycling race from Los Angles. Some of the events probably have the same max H.R. as short track speedskating. Events like the Keirin and 1000 to 3000 meter races. Maybe the 5000 meter, too.

And then I watched the Cross-Country ski races. They have a pack style sprint race (just like short track). The race takes 3 to 4 minutes. But they have to do a Heat, Quarter, Semi and Final race in one afternoon.

work4bike

I agree that when you check your max HR you should be at your absolute maximum effort, which is not comfortable in the least; having said that...I'm curious of which type of HR monitor you used? I personally don't trust any type other than chest straps. The other types can be way off, not just a little, but way way off, see here, this is a video of checking various models against an actual EKG machine: https://www.cnet.com/news/how-accura...rate-monitors/


Also of interest, is that there is a lot of misinformation out there about max HR. I'm a 52 y/o male and I can get my HR up in the low 190's and I can ride comfortably at my supposed max HR for my age, but that's mostly because I have a well-developed cardio system.

This is a great article on the misconceptions of Max HR: 'Maximum' Heart Rate Theory Is Challenged - The New York Times

wphamilton

I don't think that the spin bike corresponds very well with out on the road, with max heart rate, or with power either. Especially if the room doesn't have really good air circulation. It's a different number for running also. If maximum heart rate varies so much depending on what you're doing, it can't be that good for basing precise training zones on.

I have to admit that I've never tested mine successfully on a bike, which is a shame, but I use the highest value that I've seen consistently on hills (just after the hill actually). It's probably a few beats higher.

Lactic threshold can be confusing to me when I read these online tutorials - I don't think they're all on the same page with it. Technically it's when lactate accumulates in the blood faster than you can burn it off (it's actually a fuel, but takes longer to utilize). So you might feel that lactic acid burn and still be under the threshold, and may or may not be able to maintain that effort for a given time depending on other factors, and how the LT relates to the anaerobic threshold can be complicated. But some writers seem to use them all interchangeably.

I just use a rule of thumb that may not be scientifically accurate. At some point I'm pushing it, going along OK even though it might not be something I could keep up indefinitely, but I know that if I go a little harder I'll feel a lot of lactate and my legs will become a quivering mess. I call the heart rate at that point my lactic threshold. And for me that's a little fuzzy also as I suspect that this method is affected by how much glycogen I've got stored.

So in short maybe it's not that important to have precisely defined thresholds for max hr, LTHR, VT1/2 etc and more useful to know where the general range is, and just assume that there is some overlap in the zones.

GmanUK65

I dont know whether I should mention what Im about to next because there are many people on this forum who will have various views on what training apparatus I should use and the many different factors of indoor training against outdoor training, and other views also.

Ive just finished a workout to find my LTHR (about 15min ago). The method I used was on a spin bike and the HRM I used was a Wahoo Tickr with the Wahoo app

I first done 10 minutes warm up and followed this without pausing a 30 min workout pedalling as best I could. I did not press start in app until I was 10 minutes in. After pressing start without pausing I done the last 20 minutes of the workout. My spin bike has a cadence indicator and I was at 120 rpm at first but my legs could not let me sustain this so it went down to 102 to 105 rpm. 5 minutes left to go I was absolutely knackered and I could only do 93 to 102 rpm

I pressed stop in the app and my average heart rate was 176 bpm which I believe is a good estimation of what my LTHR is

Now I would prefer no negative feedback on this as this will not be helpful. This was the only method I could use. Where I live (Northumberland, England) there are no flat roads, it is either uphill or downhill and there are no hills that I know of within cycling distance that would take more than 30 minutes to climb. Ive read reviews that the HRMs of Wahoo and Garmin (Wahoo Tickr can be used with a Garmin 810 cycling computer) are very similar.

As mentioned above, positive feedback only please.

Carbonfiberboy 

Fine! Good job. That's what you're supposed to do.

So now you know on what to base your zones and that the MHR test was BS.