biker222

Not the ones I have been on. Steel is Real

njkayaker

This statement is dumb, unfortunately. The "majority of people" aren't buying "20 grand" bikes made of anything.

To stir the pot.

Of course, it's marketing. It seems the main reason she didn't do carbon was that it was too expensive for a startup.

The shoe fits.

This is silly. No one is arguing that "marketing doesn't enter the world of CF frames".

indyfabz

See? Carbon is deadly.

Atlas Shrugged

Are you full yet?

3alarmer 

...sure he did, just not in this thread. I think I made that about as clear as I could. I could go back and find it for you if you want, but it was clearly stated to me by Atlas Shrugged . Calling him a no one will just further inflame his passion.

mstateglfr 

There is no point where I would ever say your bikes are posted too frequently. I encourage you to post them as frequently as possible so everyone has context when reading your IGH rants.

3alarmer 

...I presume you mean "buying". The statement is a generalization, based on her top end model sales price, versus some big name bike CF top end models pricing. Is there some doubt about whether alloy frames are generally made and sold for less money than CF framed cycles ? I think maybe you've (again) missed the point.


...there is, AFAIK, no requirement for anyone to respond to any thread topic on teh Beikforums. The pot here stirs itself. It doesn't need me for that.

jonathanf2

Not one mention regarding repairability. Carbon fiber bikes can actually be repaired, unlike aluminum bikes. In my city, there's a carbon fiber bike builder/repair shop and for the more adventurous, they do sell DIY carbon fiber repair kits.

3alarmer 

...I confess I know nothing about the costs of diagnosing and repairing a cracked CFRP bicycle. Alloy, as you say, once it breaks it's broken. Do you have any idea about the costs of these services, so I can judge the vialbility of it a a strategy, versus just buying a cheaper bicycle frame in the first place ? I have the impression that a lot of people in the world of higher end CF just buy a new bike, because the associated component technology is changing so rapidly. But I might be completely mistaken in that.From your link. Sounds a little pricey to me, but what do I know ?

njkayaker

??? No, it's just wrong.

In any case, is the $7,000 bike the same as a $20,000 bike? All we have is her say-so. She said it wouldn't be as light as the UCI limit. It's well-known people spend lots for being a little lighter. It's well-known that there are severe diminishing returns.

The bottom end of the market is aluminum (and steel). So, yes, alloy frames "generally made and sold for less money than CF framed cycles".

I'm mot suggesting that good bikes can't be made from aluminum. But there is no indication that that company wouldn't make carbon bikes if it was cheap enough to get into.

This is disingenuous. No one said there was a requirement.

3alarmer 

.
...never mind, I found it in your link:

3alarmer 

...OK, if you say so.

Jughed

Last two world tour bike races I watched - the winners could have been riding 20 year old steel frames, while everyone else was riding the best of the best CF had to offer, and still won with a big margin. Pogs and Vingo would have won Strade and Tirrento on steel framed bikes while everyone else was riding their Dogma's.

The latest tech, marginal gains, gram shavings, aero... if all the riders were riding round tubed steel framed bikes - the results of the races would be the same, the best man or woman would win.

I think that's what gets lost in cycling - it's about the human, not really the machine. TT's and track racing, sure, the equipment makes a difference. Pro tour racing, drafting in a peloton, with everyone on essentially +/- equal bikes, the equipment impact isn't really that important. The strongest rider or team will win.

The first gen CF frames, the first adopters may have had an advantage over teams still riding alloy bikes - but once everyone switched over - it's essentially a non issue.

I'm not anti CF or a luddite. My issue is the cost of getting new people/kids into the sport. My 13 year old son is an avid rider - BMX, MTB, Road - you almost have to take a second mortgage out on the house to keep up with the costs of generic cycling, let alone racing gear.

Koyote

Utter nonsense. No one in GC ever suggested that.

This demonstrates why you’re not taken seriously.

3alarmer 

...please do not call me a liar. That you did not participate in the exchange does not give you license to do that. Thank you. Whether you take me seriously or not is of no importance to me. That you would choose to make this call on behalf of everyone here ? That's a good example of why it' of no importance to me.

Atlas Shrugged

You seem to be approaching this with a "hammer looking for a nail" mindset, and you're completely off base. I purchased a steel bike last year because it was the best material for the specific use case I had in mind. I needed a touring/adventure bike as my Diverge wasn't well-suited for that purpose. At least twice a year, I embark on month-long self-supported rides in different locations. Steel emerged as the ideal material due to its ease of customization and durability when fully loaded.

This bike bears no resemblance to traditional steel bikes of the past. It features disc brakes, tubeless tires, a wide-ratio 2X drivetrain, 42mm tires, tig-welded 953 tubing, and numerous brazons, among other modern components, many of which are carbon. However, this doesn't diminish the value of my carbon bikes and the overall superiority of carbon for the majority of cycling applications.

3alarmer 

...that's great. I'm happy for you. Do you recall making the statement or not ? I'd like to know before I go to the considerable work of finding it, using the forum search engine.

jonathanf2

If you go to a professional the cost will be expensive. As I mentioned, for the adventurous DIY repair kits do exist. There's quite a bit of information regarding the process on Youtube and various bike forums. Also I'm sure it also depends on the type of damage. If I snapped a down tube in half, I'd probably scrap the frame. Though if it's like a cracked chain stay or top tube, I think a CF frame can still be salvaged. Compared to an alloy frame, a crack chain stay or a hole in the top tube would compromise that bike completely.

Iride01 

You didn't see it stated anywhere that you could only enjoy cycling on a carbon frame.

njkayaker

Yes, this is obviously a dumb statement. Equally dumb would be "the vast majority of people do not need a Rolls Royce".

This makes no sense. Anyway. the "vast majority of people" don't need to spend $7000 either.

Iride01 

I didn't spend 20 grand on a CF bike. I didn't even spend a fifth of that. But yet it was made of CF and was new when I purchased it in 2020.

CF bikes can be had for much less today and are becoming available at lower and lower tier levels every year. $2500 can find some decent brand name CF bikes. Maybe even less.

njkayaker

There are companies that provide this service. They wouldn't be in business if they had no customers. So it's pretty clear it make sense for some people. (Seems like it would make more sense for expensive frames.)

3alarmer 

...in context, this was said to me here back in February:

[QUOTE=Atlas Shrugged;23153404]I can see why you’re so confused. Instead of riding and opining plastic bicycles and components you should try carbon fiber is absolutely amazing. Incredible strength to weight ratio, infinitely adjustable through layup, and state of the art for current cycling technology who knows where the future will take it. Hopefully this clears up your confusion. It will drastically increase your enjoyment of the sport from a riding perspective.[/QUOTE]

It was in the Weight Weenieism thread, which has been locked, so the reference function might not work.

Not only. Just fully. Stop saying this, because you were not a participant in the original exchange. Thank you

Eric F 

Utter nonsense.

I've ridden and raced on bikes made of steel, aluminum, titanium, and carbon fiber. I still own bikes made of 3 of those materials. I'm a lot of years removed from my best racing days and peak fitness, but I haven't lost the ability to recognize and appreciate the differences in ride quality and handling characteristics between different bikes. It turns out that the bikes I prefer to ride are all CF. They're also the bikes that excite me most to look at. If a high-end CF bike helps pro racers get the most from their abilities, why can't I also ride a bike that helps me get the most from my abilities? I'm not racing the way I used to, but I still like riding to the limits of what my body is capable of on a regular basis. That's just playing the game of bikes the way I like to play it. For the same reasons, I wear "roadie" clothing when I ride, regardless of whether it's road, gravel, or MTB. It's clothing optimized for cycling, and helps me perform at my best, regardless of how I compare to anyone else. I'm not pretending to be someone. I am a cyclist, and I use the gear that suits the way I like to ride, based on preferences developed over a long time. At this point, I don't ever expect to purchase a non-CF bike.

All that said. These are my preferences. If yours are different, that's fine. I'm not telling anyone else how they should enjoy the sport/activity, and what they should be limited to using.

3alarmer 

...as usual, you are off in the weeds again. Her point was and continues to be, that as a small start-up bicycle firm, her company can prototype and make frames from alloy, and sell them more cheaply. And that for the majority of non professional users, they can be competitive in peloton road racing conditions. No more and no less.