Spokes decision for new wheel build... DT, Sapim or regular spokes
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Spokes decision for new wheel build... DT, Sapim or regular spokes
Building plus wheels for my Ogre. currently, ride with Mavic A719 on XT hubs with Sapim spokes. I recently decided to turn my Ogre into a 27.5 plus bike. Running WTB KOM Tough rims, with XT hubs. Wanted to get opinions on spokes. I was going to go with Sapim spokes as I normally do. But I'm now wondering if I should just get regular stainless double butted spokes from the shop to build them up. Does anyone know if this will make a major difference or should I just go with better quality branded spokes.
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Building plus wheels for my Ogre. currently, ride with Mavic A719 on XT hubs with Sapim spokes. I recently decided to turn my Ogre into a 27.5 plus bike. Running WTB KOM Tough rims, with XT hubs. Wanted to get opinions on spokes. I was going to go with Sapim spokes as I normally do. But I'm now wondering if I should just get regular stainless double butted spokes from the shop to build them up. Does anyone know if this will make a major difference or should I just go with better quality branded spokes.
This article explains why you should use triple butted spokes. Sapim Strongs, DT Alpine III, Pillar PSR or Wheelsmith DH13 would all be good choices and make for a wheel that is stronger, more durable and only very slightly heavier.
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Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#3
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Sapim, DT, Wheelsmith all make good spokes. Similarly, no-name generic straight gauge spokes are generally trouble free in a typical 32 spoke, 3 cross build. You make no mention of if you want butted spokes or other specialty spokes which could affect your choice of manufacturer.
It may be to your economic advantage to buy a factory built 27.5" wheelset and just retain your 29er set of wheels. Unless one of your existing wheels requires rebuilding, tearing down a serviceable wheelset just to reuse the hubs will not likely save you a lot of money, especially if you are paying someone else to build the wheels for you.
Ride often, have fun!
It may be to your economic advantage to buy a factory built 27.5" wheelset and just retain your 29er set of wheels. Unless one of your existing wheels requires rebuilding, tearing down a serviceable wheelset just to reuse the hubs will not likely save you a lot of money, especially if you are paying someone else to build the wheels for you.
Ride often, have fun!
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Adding more, generic quality spokes means that you have more spokes to buy and less common hubs and rims that are going to be harder to find. How is that going to cost out? Also, the material that you are adding for greater spoke strength means more holes drilled in the hub and rim so you are going to lose strength in those places.
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#5
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If you have had success with Sapim, then why change? I only use DT Swill 2.0 spokes, have great results with them and see no need to change. All the butting in the world on a spoke does no good if the rest of the components are not up to the task and the build is not up to standards. Stick with the Sapims and get 'em built.
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It's hard to beat good double-butted (14g/15g) spokes from the leading manufacturers like DT Swiss, Sapim, Wheelsmith. Just make sure to have enough of 'em.
You can go all fancy with aero bladed spokes and such, but it will really ramp up the price and only save a little weight...And on an Ogre, I am guessing that aero spokes aren't a big priority.
You can go all fancy with aero bladed spokes and such, but it will really ramp up the price and only save a little weight...And on an Ogre, I am guessing that aero spokes aren't a big priority.
Last edited by Koyote; 03-18-19 at 05:55 AM.
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I've used DT, Wheelsmith, Alpine, Sapim, and a few others. No significant difference that I can detect. More important that you use enough of them (I'm not a fan of low spoke count wheels).
Beefy elbows make sense; however since all of my spoke breakages were at the nipple, I wonder if the WF blogger is relying on engineering advantage instead of real life benefit. I have a set of wheels that were built with 1.8-1.5-1.8 DB spokes and I have to admit that I would have liked for the elbows to fit a bit better in the flange holes. Nevertheless, these wheels (36 spokes in 4 cross lacing) are close to 50 years old and holding up well.
This article explains why you should use triple butted spokes. Sapim Strongs, DT Alpine III, Pillar PSR or Wheelsmith DH13 would all be good choices and make for a wheel that is stronger, more durable and only very slightly heavier.
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I've used DT, Wheelsmith, Alpine, Sapim, and a few others. No significant difference that I can detect. More important that you use enough of them (I'm not a fan of low spoke count wheels).
Beefy elbows make sense; however since all of my spoke breakages were at the nipple, I wonder if the WF blogger is relying on engineering advantage instead of real life benefit. I have a set of wheels that were built with 1.8-1.5-1.8 DB spokes and I have to admit that I would have liked for the elbows to fit a bit better in the flange holes. Nevertheless, these wheels (36 spokes in 4 cross lacing) are close to 50 years old and holding up well.
Beefy elbows make sense; however since all of my spoke breakages were at the nipple, I wonder if the WF blogger is relying on engineering advantage instead of real life benefit. I have a set of wheels that were built with 1.8-1.5-1.8 DB spokes and I have to admit that I would have liked for the elbows to fit a bit better in the flange holes. Nevertheless, these wheels (36 spokes in 4 cross lacing) are close to 50 years old and holding up well.
I link to that article because it articulates what I have found in using these spokes for over 20 years. I’ve been touting the benefits of triple butted spokes for a long time before that article came out so rather than writing it all out again, I just link to the article. But, my experience has been identical to what he writes. Spokes with stronger heads are more durable than a double butted spoke. Pillar actually has measured the differences and published the results. You’ll need to look at each of the different spokes on their product page, they give the breaking strength of the spokes. There are slight differences between Pillar and DT Alpine III in terms of dimensions but if you look at the charts for the Pillar spoke with 2.3mm heads (like the Alpine), they break at 3900 newtons compared to about 2900 N for the 2.0mm double butted spoke. The strength difference is quite obvious.
I cannot recall having had a single failure of one of my wheels at the spoke. I’ve broken some spokes at the nipple on old wheels at my local co-op but those are usual quite corroded.
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Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
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I used Saphim Strongs on my last wheel build. The rim and hub were black. Paid $36 extra for black spokes and also the black nipples. Bling. Good old bling.
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I like the DT Aerolites.
For bigger, heavier rear 24 hole Sapim strong. Front 20 hole cx-rays.
If you weight less than 400 lbs - that should do.
And no - it is not about the spokes. It is about the rims, and hubs.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...391e2dde63.jpg
For bigger, heavier rear 24 hole Sapim strong. Front 20 hole cx-rays.
If you weight less than 400 lbs - that should do.
And no - it is not about the spokes. It is about the rims, and hubs.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...391e2dde63.jpg
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The spokes do all the heavy lifting and get none of the credit. If you are looking for wheel strength and durability, spokes should be your first consideration...not an afterthought. Rims and hubs contribute very little to the overall strength of a wheel.
This article explains why you should use triple butted spokes. Sapim Strongs, DT Alpine III, Pillar PSR or Wheelsmith DH13 would all be good choices and make for a wheel that is stronger, more durable and only very slightly heavier.
This article explains why you should use triple butted spokes. Sapim Strongs, DT Alpine III, Pillar PSR or Wheelsmith DH13 would all be good choices and make for a wheel that is stronger, more durable and only very slightly heavier.
Before these carbon tubular rims I road alloy 32 (that I built), - pic here https://www.bikeforums.net/20697844-post1.html
I later wet to deep alloy 28.
On 36, 40 and 48 hole I broke spokes. It is very hard to get tension right on weaker rimes and large spoke count.
Deeper rims solved the "issues" .
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Second the wheel needs to be replaced when spokes start to break. Break a rim and you can easily replace the rim...if you have the same size...and the wheel is none the worse for it. Break several spokes and the wheel needs to be replaced or rebuilt.
Third, build a wheel with the strongest rim you can imagine...say a steel rim with a 1 to 2mm thickness like you find on many cheap bikes. Use weak spokes. You won't end up with a strong wheel.
Fourth, a rim on its own without any spokes can't resist much bending. Even steel rims are relatively easy to bend out of plane without a lot of force. The spokes bend the rim as needed out of plane with little effort. If they didn't, we couldn't true a wheel.
The rims purpose is to have something for the spokes to pull against and as a place to put a tire. But as a strength member, its role is very limited.
Before these carbon tubular rims I road alloy 32 (that I built), - pic here https://www.bikeforums.net/20697844-post1.html
I later wet to deep alloy 28.
On 36, 40 and 48 hole I broke spokes. It is very hard to get tension right on weaker rimes and large spoke count.
Deeper rims solved the "issues" .
I later wet to deep alloy 28.
On 36, 40 and 48 hole I broke spokes. It is very hard to get tension right on weaker rimes and large spoke count.
Deeper rims solved the "issues" .
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Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
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I just rebuilt our tandem wheelset with Swiss DT Alpine 3 spokes. 14-13-15 gauge. I was very pleased with them.
The previous build had used Wheelsmith, I believe, 14 gauge straight stainless spokes. In dong some reading I read where having spokes that stretch a bit more will transfer load around the rim less sharply than having spokes with less stretch.
The previous build had used Wheelsmith, I believe, 14 gauge straight stainless spokes. In dong some reading I read where having spokes that stretch a bit more will transfer load around the rim less sharply than having spokes with less stretch.
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