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Praise to the seagulls

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Praise to the seagulls

Old 07-14-19, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Reynolds View Post


This guy LOL'ed

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Old 07-15-19, 08:32 AM
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Looks like the seagulls made a perfect white rectangle on the front license plate.
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Old 07-16-19, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Skipjacks View Post
Meh....I don't feel like these guys are that much of a threat

The only thing I know about Flock of Seagulls, is that in Pulp Fiction, Samuel L Jackson calls that kid 'Flock of Seagulls' and eats his Tasty Hawaiian Burger
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Old 07-17-19, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
The only thing I know about Flock of Seagulls, is that in Pulp Fiction, Samuel L Jackson calls that kid 'Flock of Seagulls' and eats his Tasty Hawaiian Burger
True story: The first concert I went to was Flock of Seagulls and....wait for it.....Cheap Trick.

This is what happens when a random person at the USO who knows nothing about music book the concert. (This was overseas on a military base, at least it was free.)

Now back to your regularly scheduled shenanigans.
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Old 07-17-19, 03:55 PM
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The only thing I know about Cheap Trick is that it is a band.

ps who knew Peter Stormare got his start in Flock of Seagulls! I loved him in Fargo

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/...yNA@@._V1_.jpg
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Old 07-18-19, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Notso_fastLane View Post
True story: The first concert I went to was Flock of Seagulls and....wait for it.....Cheap Trick.

This is what happens when a random person at the USO who knows nothing about music book the concert. (This was overseas on a military base, at least it was free.)

Now back to your regularly scheduled shenanigans.
I like Cheap Trick. I'd have been at that show.

And I'm not exactly a fan of Flock of Seagulls, but I like them more than I like playing cards in the barracks so.....

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Old 07-18-19, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Skipjacks View Post
So because someone has a nice car they are inconsiderate, in your opinion, and deserve to have a bird mess all over it?

What you are displaying is called prejudice, as you are prejudging an individual based on your perceptions of other people with similar traits.
That's what he gets for not being able to park the ultimate driving machine between the lines.
Anyone who can't park between the lines deserves to have his car pooped on buy seagulls.
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Old 07-18-19, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Skipjacks View Post
I like Cheap Trick. I'd have been at that show.

And I'm not exactly a fan of Flock of Seagulls, but I like them more than I like playing cars in the barracks so.....
I went to see Cheap Trick.

Flock of Seagulls wasn't terrible, at least.
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Old 07-23-19, 12:08 PM
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Your prejudices are outdated. The a-holes have switched to Audis by this point.
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Old 07-23-19, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by autonomy View Post
Your prejudices are outdated. The a-holes have switched to Audis Teslas by this point.
fify
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Old 07-29-19, 01:51 PM
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Maybe I'm not a courteous cyclist because I got a nice surprise from a seagull right through the hole in my helmet the other day. Stopped to get off my bike because I thought some kid threw mud at me. After yelling at the nearby yards and houses like a crazy person, I finally looked up to see the perpetrator... Dang gulls!
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Old 07-29-19, 02:02 PM
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maybe that helmet with the bmw logo on it wasn't such a good idea after all!
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Old 08-01-19, 02:58 AM
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The thing about BMW(car) drivers, though, is that it's true. Not all BMW drivers, but many. Maybe even most.

I first noticed this phenomenon in Munich, where they're made. I later discovered that it's also true, to a lesser degree, in the US.

This isn't prejudice. It's my experience. BMW drivers have a certain reputation. That scares off since potential buyers, but not all. Those who go ahead and buy BMW's must know about this already.
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Old 08-01-19, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
The thing about BMW(car) drivers, though, is that it's true. Not all BMW drivers, but many. Maybe even most.

I first noticed this phenomenon in Munich, where they're made. I later discovered that it's also true, to a lesser degree, in the US.

This isn't prejudice. It's my experience. BMW drivers have a certain reputation. That scares off since potential buyers, but not all. Those who go ahead and buy BMW's must know about this already.
This is prejudice.

You can't say something prejudicial and mitigate it by saying "This isn't prejudicial"

You are judging any entire group of people based on your limited observation (and it is limited, as you have in no way seen even 1% of all BMW drivers). That is what prejudice is.

Not to mention if you already hold this opinion, then your ongoing observation is inherently biased as you will only notice the BMW's driving like morons and will not even see the far greater number of them driving safely. So your existing prejudices will only service to support their own existence.
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Old 08-01-19, 07:33 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Skipjacks View Post
This is prejudice.

You can't say something prejudicial and mitigate it by saying "This isn't prejudicial"
Hmmm.... well, I hope you're taking this in a lighthearted way... but here we go.

Originally Posted by Skipjacks View Post
TYou are judging ...
Well, no. I'm definitely not PRE-judging anyone. If I judge anyone (and I dispute that as well) I only do it after some behavior that brings them to my attention.

Originally Posted by Skipjacks View Post
Not to mention if you already hold this opinion, then your ongoing observation is inherently biased as you will only notice the BMW's driving like morons and will not even see the far greater number of them driving safely. So your existing prejudices will only service to support their own existence.
Well, yeah, you are right about the way preconceived notions tend to reinforce themselves. And you are right to imply that at the vast majority of BMW drivers (like most drivers) are courteous and careful, respectful of other vehicles and cyclists, and so on. But this thread is not about those drivers who are careful and courteous. This thread is about the other kind, however you chose to define those.

And I think it is true that most of "the other kind" drive something other than BMW's. I'd say I have the most trouble with diesel pickup trucks modified for "coal rolling," purposes. after which I'll put hired cars (I see a lot of them in NYC) and SUV's in general. I hardly ever have anything to say about people driving ordinary passenger cars, whether two door or four.

So my observation is limited to ordinary passenger cars drivers who do something rude to me as a cyclist. I haven't kept records over the years, but I stand my general impression that in this small group of drivers, BMW drivers are better represented than average.

I suspect one could draw a connection between the kind of driver who likes to have a certain kind of relationship with the car and the road, and who therefore demands a car with certain handling characteristics; and that BMW caters to drivers of that kind. I don't have evidence to support that, of course. But even if it were demonstrably true, not all drivers of that kind drive BMW's. My father drives a Kia (and I wish he didn't drive at all).

As for the seagulls, they do seem to have a sense of humor, with all that obnoxious laughing they do... but I don't think they can tell one car from another.
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Old 08-01-19, 07:47 AM
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Go team?
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Old 08-01-19, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Skipjacks View Post
You are judging any entire group of people based on your limited observation (and it is limited, as you have in no way seen even 1% of all BMW drivers). That is what prejudice is.
No, that's what statistics is. You don't have to see every BMW driver to be able to make valid observations about BMW drivers. 1% would be quite a large sample size actually, given the size of the complete population.

Having seen thousands of BMW drivers on the road and observing a pattern of more aggressive driving than other car owners establishes, with a certain amount of statistical significance, that the center of the bell curve of BMW drivers is more aggressive than the center of the bell curve of the rest of drivers.
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Old 08-01-19, 08:51 AM
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Not all BMW drivers, but many. Maybe even most.


You are judging an entire group of people based on your limited observation


hmmm...
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Old 08-01-19, 09:19 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
No, that's what statistics is. You don't have to see every BMW driver to be able to make valid observations about BMW drivers. 1% would be quite a large sample size actually, given the size of the complete population.

Having seen thousands of BMW drivers on the road and observing a pattern of more aggressive driving than other car owners establishes, with a certain amount of statistical significance, that the center of the bell curve of BMW drivers is more aggressive than the center of the bell curve of the rest of drivers.
1% would be a statistically valid sample size if you could remove all other variables

But this 'study' doesn't.

First off the observer has an admitted bias, which means poorly driving BMW are more likely to be noticed than well driving BMW's, and poorly driving Acuras are less likely to be noticed than poorly driving BMW's. That inherent bias from the observer skews the stats in favor of BMW drivers being worse than other drivers. So the statistics are immediately invalid, based on this observation.

Then there is the location. The original observation was in Munich, where BMW's are made. Now without doing any research on this I'm willing to bet Munich has a much higher than average percentage of BMW's on the road than any other city in the world, due to hometown pride in the local product and all.

So is BMW drivers in Munich are bad, who's to say it's because they are driving BMW's and not just that Munich drivers are awful in general? We don't know from this sample set. It could just be a correlation. You put BMW's in a city with terrible drivers....that doesn't make the car brand the problem. They would be just as bad in Ford Fiestas. This is a variable that is not accounted for in the 'statistical analysis'

Finally, there is no hypothesis given as to what makes BMW drivers worse than any other make of car. What ties all this data together? BMW's aren't necessarily more expensive than other cars. Some higher end BMW's are. But mid range models are lower cost than many other makes such as Porsche and Land Rover. And BMW's are well made cars. They last a long time. So used BMW's are readily available in the sub $10,000 price arena, where used Ford Fiestas tend not to be as readily available in the used market since they don't last as long. So owning a BMW doesn't immediately make one wealthy, nor doing being wealthy immediately make one a BMW owner, so that removes that as a predictive variable in this equation. So what is it? What about BMW's makes someone a poor driver?

And what about the other makes and models of cars? Have you independently collected statistical data on those to ensure that your BMW results aren't just observer bias?

What about other common threads on this very forum where people claim pick up truck drivers are the worst and most aggressive on the roads? How do you account for their 'statistical observations' not replicating your own? What makes your results valid and their results wrong?

Don't try to make a couple of people's non scientifically collected biased observations into a valid statistical conclusion. It is an exercise in futility.
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Old 08-01-19, 09:37 AM
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lol I will poke the bear

Do you (I) even know what rhm is even alleging? He says "The thing about BMW(car) drivers, though, is that it's true." What is "it"? You seem to think he's saying they're bad drivers, as in unskilled. I said aggressive. Another word that has showed up in the thread is inconsiderate.

BMWs are performance cars. Ford Fiestas are economy cars. It's simple self-selection that guarantees that aggressive drivers are more likely to prefer a BMW over a Ford Fiesta, and thus the population of BMW drivers will be more aggressive (in terms of a statistical distribution) than Ford Fiesta drivers.

I don't see why you would get your panties all in a bunch about that.

And yes, drivers of bro-dozers (giant, overpowered show pickups with lift kits) have a much higher a-hole rate than the general population. Drivers of work trucks have a higher work ethic than the general population.

How about, instead of ranting about how a ton of people's collected anecdotal observations don't have any possibility for underlying truth, go dig up a study that rigorously proves that, counter to widespread assumptions, BMW drivers are statistically more courteous and law-abiding than the general driver population?
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Old 08-01-19, 09:39 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Skipjacks View Post
1% would be a statistically valid sample size if you could remove all other variables

But this 'study' doesn't.

First off the observer has an admitted bias, which means poorly driving BMW are more likely to be noticed than well driving BMW's, and poorly driving Acuras are less likely to be noticed than poorly driving BMW's. That inherent bias from the observer skews the stats in favor of BMW drivers being worse than other drivers. So the statistics are immediately invalid, based on this observation.

Then there is the location. The original observation was in Munich, where BMW's are made. Now without doing any research on this I'm willing to bet Munich has a much higher than average percentage of BMW's on the road than any other city in the world, due to hometown pride in the local product and all.

So is BMW drivers in Munich are bad, who's to say it's because they are driving BMW's and not just that Munich drivers are awful in general? We don't know from this sample set. It could just be a correlation. You put BMW's in a city with terrible drivers....that doesn't make the car brand the problem. They would be just as bad in Ford Fiestas. This is a variable that is not accounted for in the 'statistical analysis'

Finally, there is no hypothesis given as to what makes BMW drivers worse than any other make of car. What ties all this data together? BMW's aren't necessarily more expensive than other cars. Some higher end BMW's are. But mid range models are lower cost than many other makes such as Porsche and Land Rover. And BMW's are well made cars. They last a long time. So used BMW's are readily available in the sub $10,000 price arena, where used Ford Fiestas tend not to be as readily available in the used market since they don't last as long. So owning a BMW doesn't immediately make one wealthy, nor doing being wealthy immediately make one a BMW owner, so that removes that as a predictive variable in this equation. So what is it? What about BMW's makes someone a poor driver?

And what about the other makes and models of cars? Have you independently collected statistical data on those to ensure that your BMW results aren't just observer bias?

What about other common threads on this very forum where people claim pick up truck drivers are the worst and most aggressive on the roads? How do you account for their 'statistical observations' not replicating your own? What makes your results valid and their results wrong?

Don't try to make a couple of people's non scientifically collected biased observations into a valid statistical conclusion. It is an exercise in futility.
I would not say BMW drivers tend to be bad drivers. The problem is more or less the opposite: they tend to think highly of their own driving, and they enjoy driving, and are more likely to drive in a way that looks aggressive. And they are more likely to use the car as a way of expressing their thoughts. That's the kind of thing that draws my attention --just as they want.

You are definitely right about home town pride in Munich. Maybe "home town pride" isn't exactly the best name for the phenomenon; I think of it as Bavarian Nationalism. But I know what you mean, and yes, that's an issue.

Some generalizations have more validity than others. I don't think pickup truck drivers are generally worse than Prius drivers, for example. But there are pickup truck drivers who enjoy rolling coal on cyclists, which is something you'll never see a Prius driver do. The guy who enjoys rolling coal is not going to buy a Prius. His choice to drive a diesel pickup truck tells you something about his character. He may also need it for work; but that's a red herring. It's the rolling coal that tells us something about some pickup truck drivers. I'm not blaming the truck, nor the diesel engine.

The same goes for BMW drivers. There are drivers who like to spin their wheels when accelerating from a stop. Why they do this, I don't know; but it often seems to be a statement of some kind. The guy who likes to drive this way is more likely to drive a BMW than a Prius, and that's no coincidence.
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Old 08-01-19, 09:44 AM
  #47  
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Skipjacks, do you drive a BMW? Did we hurt your feelings? If you want, I'll write you a note that says "Skipjacks also rides bikes, so he's not a total ******"
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Old 08-01-19, 10:44 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
Skipjacks, do you drive a BMW? Did we hurt your feelings? If you want, I'll write you a note that says "Skipjacks also rides bikes, so he's not a total ******"
Nope. Drive a Dodge. I just like other human beings are never think anyone deserves to have poop dropped on them just because of the car brand they choose to buy. Call me crazy...

And I don't like to see large groups of people judgmentally disparaged based on personal bias. It's just judgmental silliness and only serves to further divide people based on silly stupid nonsense.

I mean at least be honest and say "I hate people who have nicer cars than I do because I'm jealous. So I lash out and enjoy their misery when a bird poops on their cars." It's petty, but at least it's honest.

Also I hate seeing people make a mockery out of statistical analysis through gross misunderstanding. Numbers are awesome!
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Old 08-01-19, 10:59 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
I would not say BMW drivers tend to be bad drivers. The problem is more or less the opposite: they tend to think highly of their own driving, and they enjoy driving, and are more likely to drive in a way that looks aggressive. And they are more likely to use the car as a way of expressing their thoughts. That's the kind of thing that draws my attention --just as they want.

You are definitely right about home town pride in Munich. Maybe "home town pride" isn't exactly the best name for the phenomenon; I think of it as Bavarian Nationalism. But I know what you mean, and yes, that's an issue.

Some generalizations have more validity than others. I don't think pickup truck drivers are generally worse than Prius drivers, for example. But there are pickup truck drivers who enjoy rolling coal on cyclists, which is something you'll never see a Prius driver do. The guy who enjoys rolling coal is not going to buy a Prius. His choice to drive a diesel pickup truck tells you something about his character. He may also need it for work; but that's a red herring. It's the rolling coal that tells us something about some pickup truck drivers. I'm not blaming the truck, nor the diesel engine.

The same goes for BMW drivers. There are drivers who like to spin their wheels when accelerating from a stop. Why they do this, I don't know; but it often seems to be a statement of some kind. The guy who likes to drive this way is more likely to drive a BMW than a Prius, and that's no coincidence.
So pick up drivers are more likely to roll coal
BMW drivers are more likely to be aggressive

Someone could suggest that the Prius drivers you mentioned are more likely to be smug and think they can do no wrong because they are saving the planet, so they drive dangerously in their silent cars that sneak up on you with no warning
Or that Porche and Audi drivers fall into the same category as the BMW drivers
Or that Volkswagon drivers are more likely to be high and run you off the road because of slowed reaction time
Or that Kia drivers are more likely to run you over because they are poor and had less access to good driver training

I mean we could do this all day. With some stereotype for every make and model of car. None of which can be verified with observable and replicatable statistics.

What it boils down to is that there is no shortage of dangerous drivers on the road. They are in every make and model of car.

If the observer doesn't like BMW's they will see BMW drivers as 'the worst'. If the observer doesn't like pick up trucks they will see pick up trucks as 'the worst'.

There are so many aggressive and otherwise dangerous drivers on the road that you can pick any make or model and find enough example of dangerous driving from that car in a day that you will support your own hypothesis that that make of car is 'the worst'. In other words if you are looking for aggressive BMW drivers, you will find plenty of them. If you are looking for aggressive Prius drivers, you will find plenty of them. Observer bias will dictate the results of any such observation like this.

Saying that drivers of any single make of car are more likely to be aggressive than any other is statistically unsupported.
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Old 08-01-19, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Skipjacks View Post
Saying that drivers of any single make of car are more likely to be aggressive than any other is statistically unsupported.
Statistical support or credible relevant facts are unnecessary to support the biases or wishful thinking of some posters, as rumors, irrelevant anecdotes, fabricated factoids, and/or something read or heard somewhere, are all the "proof" they need to support the dreck about bicycling, motoring or any other topic on which they care to pontificate about on BF.
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